Ep 37- Leading With Intuitive Decision-Making with Shosanna French
Erin Austin: Hello, ladies. Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I am very excited with my guest today. Welcome to Shauna.
Shoshanna French: Hi. Thanks for having. Yeah, I
Erin Austin: think this will be a great one. I'm gonna let Shan introduce herself, but we are very excited to talk about the ways that intuition, uh, plays in our businesses as well as our self-care and our mental health, and really 360 degrees of being a woman in business, especially those of you who are so, Like I am where there is very little, uh, light between my professional and my personal, uh, lives.
Erin Austin: And so this conversation will be applicable to many facets of our lives. So, so Sean, please introduce yourself to the audience.
Shoshanna French: Hi, I'm Shoshana French. I am the founder of Simple Spirit. Um, it is a company that provides training and development for the practical application of intuition for women. Uh, we do work with men too, and um, and mostly in use of business, but if like what you just said, 360 degrees, same for me.
Shoshanna French: Intuition is applicable for every area of life. And if intuition is a funny word for people, how I think of it is we're just turning up the volume of our ability to trust ourselves and restoring authority for our choices internally versus externally. So that's what I do. Well, I
Erin Austin: love that because one of my first questions was going to be like, you know what exactly is intuition?
Erin Austin: And I feel like, you know, I, you know, work with intellectual property and I feel like there's some parallels there where, you know, with intellectual property, you know, most people are aware of it. They know it's important. , they kinda get what it is, , but they're not sure how to harness it. And I, I'm guessing that you have that same experience when you're working with people.
Shoshanna French: It's so funny. I bet when you say it to people, intellectual property, they're like, wait, what? Oh yeah. Intellectual property. That's exactly what happens. when I say intuition. So it's like exactly a parallel. That's funny. I didn't think about that. So I always like to define intuition simply, which is intuition is a direct way of knowing or understanding something without any prior experience or knowledge.
Erin Austin: So that is not a very, that's not very woo woo .
Shoshanna French: No, and here's the funny part is that, um, I, as a human being, like my personal identity, very, very woo, like super woo. Mm-hmm. . But what I found is that if I want more people to be trusting themselves and applying this gift that we have, I have to find a way to talk about it that fits for all kinds of people, no matter what their background is or where they're from or even their.
Shoshanna French: and so I just really worked on understanding what I would call just the basic mechanics of how it works. Simple, practical. That's me, . Simple spirit. So there you go. Yeah.
Erin Austin: So do people kind of self-select into your definition of intuition or do you have to educate them? Like where are they coming from?
Shoshanna French: Well, uh, I find that people fall into a few different categories. So I have the people I call the full woo people. Mm-hmm. , and they're. Oh, well that's a really practical definition. And then they tell me their definition, which is like angels and you know, like the spirit and they say all that stuff. And I'm like, that totally fits too.
Shoshanna French: If that's your definition, use it. Mm-hmm. . And then I have the people I like to call the closet. Woo. People that like, you know, on their desk, they have like a motivational calendar and maybe a little crystal next to it. And people who come into their office are like, that's such a pretty rock. And they're like, yes, isn't it?
Shoshanna French: But it's a rose quartz that they know. Helps them be gentler with people who get on their nerves. , but they don't. But the people who in their office, dunno that those are my closet. W and they're for them, they love a more practical definition. They don't have to be educated on it. They appreciate it. Cause now they have access in their closet.
Shoshanna French: W world, like most of the people I work with are kind of closet w people. Um, I work with lawyers and real estate agents and people that on the outside are very connected and like compassionate and loving people, but they're. Saging people as they walk into their office. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. , they know about Saging, but they're not doing it.
Shoshanna French: I don't know what Saging Explain that. Ok. , I'll talk about that in a second. It's, I'm using a term that is, uh, it's an indigenous practice. What I mean is burning a bundle of herbs to clear people's energy. Mm-hmm. , uh, some, the actual burning of sage is indigenous, but, um, to quite a few, um, tribes in the North America.
Shoshanna French: However, uh, from. background and my fa and my people come from the Celtic roots from Ireland and Wales and like that, and they just do a bundle of herbs like lavender and that kind of stuff. So anyway, that's what it is. And then I have my third category of people, and those people are super skeptical.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. , they are not closet Woo. They are not woo at all. And they're my like engineers, insurance agents when I do work in corporate and they, they typically have to be educated until they go. Oh, I've had that experience before. You're calling that intuition, okay. Mm-hmm. and I have not met. Mm, I That's, I can't say that.
Shoshanna French: That's probably not accurate. I've met very, very rarely do I meet people who are like, I don't understand what you're saying at all. I don't know what that is. And moreover, I think it's total crap. I've not, I've met very few people like that. Mm-hmm. mostly people are like, uh, like I don't know that you can teach people that like a skill.
Shoshanna French: I've had those conversations, but in general, , they don't have to do that much education just enough that people can, um, pull it to themselves and it makes sense to them.
Erin Austin: Can, can you give us an example of one of those insurance agents or realtors that had to, you had to like, kind of show them that they already had some intuition that they didn't recognize?
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . Um, so I worked with a CEO, E O. CEOs tend to be already pretty visionary people. Mm-hmm. and, uh, she was, um, Someone who was like curious in general in life, however, pretty practical her background was in behavioral science and business, and so she's like bottom line, you know, strategic in her thinking.
Shoshanna French: And when we started talking about intuition, she was, she had a company and she had five employees and. Her practice every morning was to walk around and talk to all five employees, and then all of a sudden her business grew like wildly fast and she went from five employees to 45. and there was no way that she could walk to every single per there, just like there was no humanly possible way.
Shoshanna French: And that's when she found me. She said, I've heard that you work with people who are trying to use the old ways of doing things and it's not working, so I need a new way. And we started with that and she was like, you want me to do what? And I was like, I want you to sit at your desk in the morning and ask your business where it needs your attention today.
Shoshanna French: And she was like, That literally makes no sense. Like I'm talking to my business. What are you talking about, ? And, uh, I just had her do it like over and over and over and over again. And like little by little, she built trust, like anything, right? Like. , probably the conversations you have with people about building something that's scalable versus a side hustle.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. in the beginning they're like, no, you don't understand. I have to have this make me money so I can pay my bills. Mm-hmm. , and you're like, yes and yes, and, and that's what I told her. Yes, you should talk to your employees. You love them, you're so grateful for them and. , try this. So, uh, I worked with her for six months.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. , about three or four months after that, she messages me this wild story sitting at her desk. She says, you know, where does my business need my attention today? And the one of her call, uh, she owned a technology company. One of her call, uh, room people popped in her head. His name is Jose, and she was, That's weird, but now by now she's nine months into practice, right?
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . So she immediately calls his supervisor. He goes, that's so funny that you call me about Jose. He's been out of the office for seven days, really sick. But as soon as she heard that, she got this terrible feeling in her stomach again, trusting. Mm-hmm. . And so she said, could you just check on him for me?
Shoshanna French: when the guy checked on him, he saw that for those seven days, Jose had been logging into the technology every single day, even though he was homesick and he'd been downloading information. Wow. All this data . And so they caught it before a data leak. They were able to let him go. Mm-hmm. and protect the company.
Shoshanna French: And it was like she said, all right, I'm, and like she went from skeptical to, I mean, now she. Sages people and she's like, do that thing you do. And like she's all like yoga now and all the, like, if you have a woo thing now she does it. But that was like her moment of like, that would've, that moment wouldn't have happened if she didn't fully buy in.
Shoshanna French: So that's a, that's an example of the transformation that people go through when they start to trust their own inner authority and wisdom. Like, I'm just gonna trust something's not right. And she was 100% correct. .
Erin Austin: That is interesting. Mm-hmm. , well, that, that Remi, that well kind of relating it to me in the way that I've thought about intuition traditionally is something akin to gut instinct and I, is that the right way to think about it?
Erin Austin: That's kind of the first one question, and then the second piece is the reason I have never quite been able to lean into intuition or guidance, assuming there. Uh, making them synonyms is, I never can tell if it is, um, just like, let's say just do it and you know, let it go. Is that just letting the resistance get the better of me or am I just being lazy because I don't wanna go through the grind?
Erin Austin: Or is it literally. I understand somewhere that it's something they'll let go of. And I, I can't quite figure out how to balance
Shoshanna French: those. I love the, the combination of those two questions is smart. It tells me you thought quite a bit about this , like before we even talked before I was even gonna come on.
Shoshanna French: You've been thinking about this. I love that. Uh, it's not, it's not a simple question. So I'm gonna do my best to be concise. However, I tend to be not, so I'll do my best. So, um, Gut instinct is only one of the ways that our body translates intuitive communication when we are, um, uh, using our intuition. So, uh, to, to me the simplest answer is when you're trying to figure something out, like you're trying to solve a problem, you're trying to avoid making a.
Shoshanna French: Or you're trying to do something, right? Those kind of three situations, uh, put you from a space of intuition into data like your brain, right? Mm-hmm. . And if you remember, like the thing I always remember is our brains are, um, programmed or wired to have negative bias. . Like we automatically think that thing we're having this idea about is not gonna work.
Shoshanna French: We automatically think that weird feeling we have in our gut about this date we're about to go on, we override it because we're being too picky, right? Mm-hmm. , all these things that, you know in our brain, make us not listen. So to me the question is when you are in the space to be curious, not about answers, fixing things, problems.
Shoshanna French: Avoiding making a mistake, what should I do? But instead, you're in this place of, okay, I wanna launch this thing. Is that really in alignment with the purpose of why I started my business? . Mm-hmm. , that's a question for intuition, because where intuition gets to like really shine, where our inner wisdom gets to shine are those questions about possibility and reaching into things we don't already know.
Shoshanna French: Hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. . So to me, what I often say is if you get, let's say, a gut instinct about something and then you're resisting it, you're like, mm-hmm. Mostly that's probably either negative bias or the way that you're engaging with your intuition is you're. Figure something out. And intuition is all about curiosity, exploration, discovery, like that's kind of the direction it goes.
Shoshanna French: It's imagination, I think of the way that children learn, just pure curiosity and everything is really interesting. And then they have like little discoveries and you know, the discoveries they're having, we already know. So it doesn't seem very wondrous to us. We're like, yes, that's an ant. Good job. Right.
Shoshanna French: However, it is also how we learn too, and when we're tapped into our intuition, that discovery is the direction. So that's what I would say it. That's one part, part number two, it's just trust. It's a muscle. . Mm-hmm. . And so un, unless you practice using your intuition and building that muscle, building the trust in it about stuff that feels lower risk, you are not going to use it for higher risk things.
Shoshanna French: You're just not going to mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , like if you're trying to quit your job and start a business. Mm-hmm. , I wouldn't recommend starting there. If you're trying to build, you know, your trust and your intuition, I would start with stuff like, which of these vitamin B supplements is the right one for my.
Shoshanna French: Like that's a little lower risk or mm-hmm. , my GP s says to go, right, but my body is telling me to go left low risk. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I can
Erin Austin: tell you I get that one wrong every time, but that's
Shoshanna French: about the left to right. . Right. Are you thinking like, which way is gonna have me avoid the traffic? Yes. Yes. I, I see that's not intuition.
Shoshanna French: That's trying to figure out a problem or avoid making a mistake. That's why, right? That's why if you were like, Ooh, I wonder which way will be most fun? Ooh, let's go to the right. I mean, I don't even know. That was the, oh,
Erin Austin: that's a good way to think of it. I do make choices sometimes that way where I can avoid a highway and go to the back way and
Shoshanna French: like what will be the prettier way?
Shoshanna French: And then wild stuff happens. When we listen to our intuition. We want it to be really like logical. , should I open up a new brick and mortar store? You know, I've got one in Baltimore. Should I open it in dc? Mm-hmm. . And then we're like listening to the should, which is trying to figure something out and get an answer.
Shoshanna French: And then we take action on that, and then we're like, see. intuition doesn't work. That didn't work out. Mm-hmm. and it was like, well, should, based on what I don't like, that's a, that's a pretty broad question based on growing and making more money based on the kind of lifestyle that you want, based on the future of, you know, franchise.
Shoshanna French: I don't know. Right. It just all depends on your intuition, listens to what you're curious about. If you're trying to figure something out, you're not leaving space for that. , uh, that openness that is required for intuition to come in as we have to let go of what we know the right way to do things. , like our fear about making a mistake.
Shoshanna French: Our, because like for example, hard and fast rules, I don't speak for free. Right. All entrepreneurs who have some subject matter expertise are like, I don't do that. Mm-hmm. . However, I got invited once to come and speak in DC on a panel and I was like, I'd have to pay to fly because I don't live there. I live in Denver.
Shosanna French: And I was like, you know what? That sounds kind of fun. Yes. And then I got a second call from someone else who is a digital coach for Google, and she said, Hey, do you wanna come and do a talk, like a fireside chat at Google? And I was like, . Yeah, . But then I had like two opportunities. Did I get paid for them?
Shoshanna French: No. Not in the immediate, but my intuition said yes. Mm-hmm. what that is produced is wild. Like that is a 30 minute conversation over t kind of wild. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But that's how intuition works. It's not, it's not linear. So that's where our brains get a little bit funny about it, is I want it to be linear.
Shoshanna French: It's not mm-hmm. . .
Erin Austin: That is a tough one. So what I'm hearing is that it's really about kind of opening ourselves. Mm-hmm. and being open to, to. But maybe speaking to us as Oppos. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's very interesting. So we're talking to a group of, you know, B2B experts, so their clients or corporations.
Erin Austin: And so if, let's say they get used to using intuition internally, is that something that they would share with their clients as part of their process?
Shoshanna French: No, I think you have to learn how to translate. Mm-hmm. . . Um, and it all depends on how your intuition works. There's different ways to translate. So for people who are more gut instinct kind of people mm-hmm.
Shoshanna French: I think a good translation is something about, this just doesn't feel right to me. Mm-hmm. , I need some data to back it up, but could you give me a moment to just like look at the numbers again? Mm-hmm. , because it just doesn't quite feel right that, that translates even in, I worked with a shipping and logistics company, like talk about it was all engineers, right.
Shoshanna French: Um, if you're someone who knows things, , like some people just know things. An answer sort of pops in their head. You have to translate it, you have to go. Um, you know, I had a different idea about that. Do you mind if I share it? . Mm-hmm. . Um, some people hear more like, it's sort of like an internal conversation.
Shoshanna French: They hear something that's where it lands in their intuitive, you know, translation. And you can say something like, Hmm, you know, in what you're saying, I hear something different. Can I, can I share it with you? Like, , there's ways of, and then the last is a sense like you see images or you like whole, like movie in your head or people's faces, that kind of thing.
Shoshanna French: Kind of like the woman I talked about earlier, Kate. Mm-hmm. , the one who own the company. Um, when you see stuff, you can say something like either like, mm, like this doesn't quite look right to me. Could, could we look at it again? Mm-hmm. , or I was seeing something different. Can I share with you what I saw it?
Shoshanna French: Like that does not sound. at all. Right. Right. . Um, what I have found is instead of saying the word intuition, you can use words like intuitive, like mm-hmm. . This isn't a, this isn't a very intuitive solution. I have a more intuitive solution. Mm-hmm. , I don't know why that very subtle shift mm-hmm. , but it matters.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . So to answer your initial question, ? No, I don't think you have to tell. Mm-hmm. , your client that your internal process and your team. Mm-hmm. is intuition. I do work with, I work with an organization, black Girl Ventures in DC and I have been tr like training and working with the team for six months.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . And so she is, every time she's interviewed and she's interviewed all over, when people say, how have you grown your organization in six years to this multimillion dollar organization? She'll say, I use my intuition. She says it. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But I think because she's, um, like people know her as a visionary leader mm-hmm.
Shosanna French: and a disruptor that really works for her. Right. Uh, and some of, and some of her organizations who fund her organization are more corporate things, but even they like, you know, Google, Amazon, Experian, Nike. Mm-hmm. , B A foundation, that kind of stuff. I think they're kind of like ones that are okay with things that are edgy.
Shoshanna French: This, uh, shipping and logistics company? No, definitely not. , no. When, when I worked with that organization that was all lawyers, uh, no. No, definitely not. So I found different ways to translate it. It's still true. Mm-hmm. I was still saying like, mm, you know, in that meeting I was hearing everybody sharing and something just like, it just came to me and I'd love to share that because I think it will make a difference in.
Shoshanna French: It's kind of like, do we care where intuition comes from? Not really. No. So do we have to tell them that's what's happening? Mm. Not really . Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, because how can you explain how your brain makes conclusions anyway? So right , it's all the same thing over there in, you know, in corporate land.
Shoshanna French: So that's, that's my, that's my perspective, right? Because I care about the
Erin Austin: result and not intuition is an input. Right? And we don't sell inputs. We sell.
Shoshanna French: 100%. That was such a smart way to say it. Exactly.
Erin Austin: Yep. Yep. Yeah. But for your, uh, your Black Girl Ventures client, I mean, that's her brand though, so I guess maybe that's why for that to be, um, yeah, if your brand is
Shoshanna French: a disruptor.
Shosanna French: Yeah. Um, and, and, and for me, I can get away with stuff because my, my brand is a little bit edgier, you know? Mm-hmm. , like simple spirit. What does that mean? Mm-hmm. , even when I get hired in and I just say spirit is like the energy of something. It's like the experience you have of other people and simple is just what you think it is.
Shoshanna French: Like all the ways we, we complicate things, it's completely unnecessary. So it's about having the energy and spirit of an experience be. That's what simple spirit means. That's my non-new way of explaining it. And people are like, oh, okay, good . It's like, whatever it like, you know, it's . Someday in the future it'll probably be full Wu, but right now, uh, you know, I've been open for 18 years and so, uh, in this current iteration of the company, it's very practical, which I love because it gives me a chance to use that part of who I am versus my only Wu part.
Shoshanna French: You know, .
Erin Austin: Well, that brings us to how you got into the intuition business, the business of intuition, as well as, you know, you've described like three very different kind of avatars, I'd say, of clients, but they must have some similar pains if they're all coming to you. Yeah. So where's the intersection among those kind of three buckets of clients and in, how did you, how'd you find, find this work?
Shoshanna French: Well, initially, originally, 18 years ago, I started it because I was broke, . And I was like, I keep having Craptastic job after Craptastic job. I want something new. I want something different. And uh, I started this business in like a, like a coaching group that I was in. She was like, everybody's starting a business.
Shoshanna French: So I started this business and one of the things I knew how to do was do intuitive sessions with people like readings, right? Mm-hmm. . , like, for lack of a better word. So I did that with people and then like how business goes, opportunities came to me and people asked me if I could do things that I wasn't already doing, and then I was like, yeah, I can do that too.
Shoshanna French: And then kind of made it up on the fly like all entrepreneurs do. Mm-hmm. and have done that over and over and over again. So I like about once every three to five. , everything kind of shifts and changes. So right now we're in like year two of the big shift in change. Mm-hmm. That occurred, you know, a couple years ago and you know, at the end of 2020 when things really changed in my business.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . , it was like, okay, it's time to transition. So I love the question about intersectionality, like where do these people mm-hmm. , you know, intersect. What I would say is that, um, whether you work in corporate, like a very large company or you work in a small company, or you are an entrepreneur and you have no employees, all kinds of people mm-hmm.
Shoshanna French: um, we all deal with doubt. , we all deal with second guessing and we all deal with analysis paralysis because no matter who you are, and obviously the number of decisions increases, the more people you have in your life. So mm-hmm. and, and, and the larger. of leadership role that you have. So like if you're a mom plus you run the thing at your community center, plus you own a business, plus you are the H hoa.
Shoshanna French: Pre, like however many more things you take on means you have to make more decisions and mm-hmm. people who make fast decisions but make mistakes in those decision. are in the same boat as people who don't make any, honestly. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It's, it's the same experience. So the people I work with who are very skeptical, make very fast decisions based on data.
Shoshanna French: Data sometimes lies. Mm-hmm. , because who collected the data, right? Mm-hmm. , you know, what was the incentive for those numbers? Right? Like, you know, agendas, hello. Right. Absolutely. And then the people, and then the people who are making decisions more based on. You know, like, oh, I wanna make the right decision.
Shoshanna French: I don't wanna only be focused on data. I'm making the decision about people. And then they just get stuck in like the machination of trying to make all the same thing. Mm-hmm. , it all leads to a sense of distrust and, and then it leads people to go outside of themselves to get help. And I have seen it on every level of leadership.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. , I work with politicians, I work with N F L coaches. I've worked with people who are both million dollar founders and billion dollar founders. It's all actually the same thing because it's a human, it's a shared human experience, which is, I keep messing this up. I need to find someone who knows better than me.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . . Unfortunately, if you're in the position of not trusting yourself, that then puts you in kind of a vulnerable posi position When you look for an expert outside of yourself and. . Well meaning you hire an expert who has their own agenda, not yours. Right. And then it, it often means that you are not moving in the direction you wanna move.
Shoshanna French: So I've had that same experience, even as someone who's a professional intuitive who does this for a living. I sometimes make decisions in hiring contractors to hire people I really like. Mm-hmm. , just, I really like them. Right. And unfortunately, liking is not a. Decision maker for a cpa. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Shoshanna French: or, you know, or anything for that matter, like there are other, you know, points of interest or importance that I should be paying attention to. So that's, that's where they intersect, is when you are restored to trusting yourself, seeing the authority for your decisions restored here. Then when you look to hire an expert, you're still using your inner authority.
Shoshanna French: You're using your intuition to make a choice that is in alignment with you. So that's, that's how I end up working with such different kinds of people, is that everybody has, it's a human experience. We all have that experience of self-doubt, past mistakes that we're trying to avoid making, you know, analysis paralysis, cause we're trying to do the right thing.
Shoshanna French: And the one that happens for just about every woman I work with, which is they're considering too many people when they make decision. . Mm-hmm. , like, how is this gonna affect everyone? Mm-hmm. versus does this feel right to me? And then I can sort out how this will affect others. Mm-hmm. , but especially, especially in business, I mean, oh my gosh, it happens all the time.
Shoshanna French: Wow. Okay.
Erin Austin: That's very interesting. Yeah, I, I can honestly relate to you. I've had to make a, a number of, uh, decisions, even some, but the business decisions where it's easy to really kind of really get bogged down and, uh, and, uh, and worry about obviously making the right decisions. So, um, and what inputs are the right ones and who, whose advice do you take and who's do you kind of just sift through?
Erin Austin: And yeah, that's a lot. And, okay. That's very interesting. Well, on the personal side, and I know that, um, you, uh, I think it was, I saw it in your, in your Instagram, you know, making the connection between intuition and self-care. So tell me
Shoshanna French: how that shows. . Well first I always like to say I wanted to find self-care a little bit differently because I think people, I was just saying this to a client the other day, she's having just a rough time in life.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. husband is sick with cancer. She lost her mom three months before her husband was diagnosed. This was last year. So she's just like, For her in the circumstances of life she's in. When we talk about self-care, she's like, well, I'm making sure I'm eating enough food and getting sleep. And to me, I think because we've been trained as women to take care of other people, we think that's what self-care is.
Shoshanna French: So I invite people listening right now to consider that the basic needs being met is actually not self-care . It's like, it's like ho Hopefully you see that your basic needs being met is, is like a non-negotiable. And then there's like what you need to either, I define it as what you need to dump out, like when we're too full and what you need to fill up.
Shoshanna French: And those are different things. So if you're totally depleted, you need stuff to fill you up. If you are. just too full, like too many decisions, too many meetings, too many stressful situations. You're like, then you need something to dump you out. So I just wanna say that first because I don't know that everybody relates to self-care in that way.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. And uh, when I work with women who are high up either in the corporate ladder or have very, very busy successful organizations, they themselves or the founders of, they don't always do a great job of the kind of self-care that dumps them out or fills them up. So in saying that, . That's the first place I always look is intuitively I just check in with myself.
Shoshanna French: Do I feel depleted or do I feel too full? Hmm mm-hmm . And sometimes I feel both at the same time. Let's be honest, because life get, life gets crazy. So it just depends. And then from there, Rather than having a prescribed list of things that I should do, notice the S word. Like I just go, okay, got it. In this moment, what would actually fill my cup?
Shoshanna French: What would fill me up? And some days the thought of calling a friend. is like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna laugh. We're gonna have a lot of fun. That will be awesome. And then sometimes that sounds like more depleted. . , like that will be like, oh my God, I can't listen to somebody else's breakdowns right now. Mm-hmm.
Shoshanna French: So it just depends on the day. And then in those times I'm like, what would fill me up? Oh, I know it would fill me up a bath. Or going, sitting in the hot tub in our backyard or making art, like I do this thing called Zen Tang. Look up some people. It's so fun. Um, it's so fun. I love, right? And then the times when I'm too full and I need to dump out.
Shoshanna French: Um, that might look like, you know, the self-care that some people talk about, calling my therapist. Um, you know, I have a coach talking to my coach, like scheduling an extra thing. Um, giving myself a moment to focus all of my time, energy, and attention on something that is not figuring things. that does a good job for me of mm-hmm.
Shoshanna French: emptying me out. Mm-hmm. . So like, I'm looking at my bookshelf right now, so I, I have books that teach me things and make me think, and then I have books that are just like mindless and so I, it's different. Those are different, you know, if I, if I feel like I need to fill myself up, that's a different book I reach for than when I feel totally depleted.
Shoshanna French: So that's my answer to that question. Intuition can guide me to what for myself. . I'm not a feeler, so it's not what feels right to me. I keep saying that, like what feels right in your body. I'm not a feeler. I'm married to a feeler. He feels things I don't, I'm more like, that sounds right or that looks right to me.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . . And for some people they just know. So just keep that in mind. We all translate a little bit differently. Yeah, yeah,
Erin Austin: yeah. Well that, I, I needed this at the end of the, uh, under the 2022, where I felt completely depleted. Mm-hmm. And, you know, over the last two weeks of the year, um, where I thought, you know, I'm gonna have this chance to, I, I don't know, which it turned out I didn't, neither.
Erin Austin: uh, rest or be productive , because I couldn't figure out what I was doing and I didn't do either. And it was after it where s someone mentioned the. Uh, it's kind of a loose, um, cell phone analogy where it's one thing to unplug. So that's part one is unplugging, but two is recharging. Like it's not enough if you haven't recharged and you're still, it doesn't, doesn't matter.
Erin Austin: Still empty at the end. And that's how I unfortunately ended. 2022 because I forgot the recharge part. . Mm. And uh, and so I am, have decided that my phrase of the year, uh, is going to be do less better. And I am actively figuring out what I can just drop, you know, like what I cannot do, whether it's at home. Or with my business.
Erin Austin: Um, and just like how to get more, you know, both quality and, you know, intimacy and understanding like all those things. Um, competencies. Deeper without being so kind of everywhere. And it feels good. I mean, I'm not, you know, work of progress obviously. Yeah. But you know, just the, the intention, it makes me hopeful.
Shoshanna French: what do you like to do? I'm just curious cause I always like to ask because then I hear different stuff. What do you like to do? I love the unplugged versus recharge. Hmm. That's cool. I wrote that down. I really like that. What do you like to do to recharge? What recharges.
Erin Austin: Uh, being in nature. Uh, it used to be, um, a lot of gardening.
Erin Austin: I have a little bit of land here. Um, right now it's kind of not the best time of year for it, but you know, you can do it any time of year, um, hiking, um, and, uh, and the drives. I do love, uh, my beautiful long drive as well. So, and, uh, and I like to go, um, Mind emptying, kind of the mindless part. Um, I am a big audiobook person, and then I also like to just take myself to the movies as well.
Shoshanna French: Doug,
Shoshanna French: I like what you, just like what you just said and I think it Well, hi puppy dog.
Shoshanna French: What gets to her so cute. The, um, all the things you mentioned, the, I think this is important for people who listen to your show. All the things you mentioned are solitary and I think that. . Um, that is, I think that's valuable for people to understand. You know, people throw around the word introvert and extrovert a lot.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . And, um, even someone who is really extroverted like me, I still require solitary time. Mm-hmm. , um, and recharge time. And so I love that. I love the idea that, um, and, and I didn't mention it in the list of things I said, but, but nature is such a thing for me for sure. Same. Same. Mm-hmm. in Colorado right now.
Shoshanna French: Uh, there is no gardening happening. Lemme tell you, , it's like ground is hard. Frozen , but , it's like 26 degrees outside today. But gardening for me is also a big thing. Mm-hmm. . and this time of year I have a hard time getting outside because it's so cold. But, uh, I do love nature. I have, I'm like, I have a lot of plants in my office very intentionally, so I feel a little bit like there's green in here, even though it's like brown and gray outside
Shoshanna French: Yeah. Yeah.
Erin Austin: Very nice, very nice. Well this is the Hourly to exit podcast, so we wanna like tie. intuition and the way that you work with your clients, with building a business that is scalable and that hopefully they can sell some day. So how does the work that you do tie into helping, um, people on that hourly to exit
Shoshanna French: journey?
Shoshanna French: Uh, I would say some of it is, um, Letting yourself be guided towards experts like you who know about how to move beyond ip, who know about Oh wow. Like I'm not just trying to become a subject matter expert and get my corner of the market, but instead think of my subject matter expertise as intellectual property.
Shoshanna French: Yes. That I can then build into something that can be sold. Mm-hmm. so, That's like number one, like trust your intuition to lead you towards podcasts, books, and people, experts, people like Erin who know things that you don't know, that you feel attracted towards. Like, ooh, like, like I felt attracted when I read your stuff.
Shoshanna French: And I was like, oh, I just, I wanna be in her energy because she's got stuff to teach. So I wanna say that first and then the second is I'm just gonna share my own journey from. , like subject matter expertise to business owner. It's a big leap for me. Mm-hmm. , it's a big leap. So the, the, the business model that I learned from was hourly.
Shoshanna French: Like, you sell your time and you try to accumulate as many of those chunks of time with people, get people to really like you. They, they tell all of their friends almost like a hairstylist, sty, you know, type of service based business. and then I noticed. at the rate I was going, I would reach the ceiling of my time for money.
Shoshanna French: So I had to do one of two things. Yes, I had to charge more or I had to change the format in which I was offering, and that was kind of the first leap to thinking about scalability. Mm-hmm. is, I changed my offer. Mm-hmm. , so it went from single one-on-ones to now I have. , you know, coaching programs. I hate the, the phrase high ticket offer, whatever, but it was like I went from, you know, service-based, single to, okay, now I have, and so I've been working on this.
Shoshanna French: I call it leverage. You have leverage. Leverage, yes. Thank you. That's not scalability, right? For me, it was like I'm scaling my time, but still time. All right. And then about two or three years ago, um, I was on a podcast and the guy was talking to me. about scaling. And the thing that had me say yes to being on his podcast was, again, intrigued by his energy.
Shoshanna French: And what he said was, and it blew my mind, so if you're, I know this is mostly b2b, but still probably there's people who are service-based folks listening. Mm-hmm. , listen to my words. I had my mind blown, and it was a big deal he said. , you don't think of your expertise as an expertise that other people could use.
Shoshanna French: You only think of it as yours. Mm-hmm. and that you're sharing it with other people. And I was like, huh, .
Erin Austin: I was like, wait, hold
Shoshanna French: on a second. You gotta say that again. Slow because I don't, I didn't catch on to that. And so I, it got me to start thinking about what inside of what I offer is actually can be offered without me present.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. . and then there are all a whole bunch of models inside of that. So then I started thinking about it, right? So I've been thinking about this now for almost three years. So do I, you know, I have a test online called the Intuitive Blueprint Test. Do I like license that test to other people and create a thing?
Shoshanna French: That's one thing. Or do I certify people who work under me? Mm-hmm. . So they work for my company and they offer what I offer. Or do I certify people and they don't work for me, they just pay for the certification. So I've. for myself, I've been looking at the feasibility of e each of those kind of one at a time.
Shoshanna French: And, uh, doing it in a way that makes sense and still for me, holds true to, um, my purpose on the planet, which is having other people be more intuitive and trusting themselves because when people are more in touch with themselves, they're actually kinder and they're more present. . Right. And then they're out in the world doing the things that, like their vision being fulfilled and making the difference they wanna make.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. I, um, like not to name drop her a third time in your podcast, but I'm really excited because my friend Omi, who I worked with, she just, um, was, uh, she testified in front of Congress yesterday Wow. About the, about the redefinition of, um, people who could be investors, like changing that definition so that other people, middle class folks can become investors in things and, you know, bridge that, bridge that wealth gap and create, you know, generational wealth.
Shoshanna French: Like her
Erin Austin: changing the accredited investor, uh, sta. Okay. Yes. Oh,
Shoshanna French: okay. Interesting. So she, she, uh, testified on Congress about changing that. And so she was on a panel, I think with like six other people also testified too, but. Like that opportunity came from her trusting her intuition and building relationships with people that she was drawn to.
Shoshanna French: Not because intellectually she knew they were a good fit, but because she knew intuitively that was a, like those, those were a way of building a billion dollar network. And that's, that's the, that's the title of her book. So it's like, for me, that is what, that's. Possible. Mm-hmm. , that's what's possible. So I've been thinking about which of those three things not could make me the most money, but could help me stay most true to my vision in the world.
Shoshanna French: And it's creating a certification program. So I'm in process for that right now. Um, and I'm focusing on therapists first because they're the ones who've been asking for it. Mm-hmm. . , um, people in like the behavioral science world, trusting their intuition, but also training their patients how to trust their intuition.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. and like understanding how mental illness really affects that and trauma affects that. So that's, that for me is the journey. So, uh, that's nice. That's how I got here. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, um, all, all I know, and hopefully this lands for the people who listen, is that your intellectual property that you've been thinking about or like your subject matter expertise is just like two steps away from you thinking about it as actual intellectual property.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. and looking at how you could leverage it. So, and, and scale it. Right. So like is it a book that is a great way to leverage it and then you sell your. or you find people to do book clubs with your book or d you know, you create a training manual from your book. I mean, there's so many ways, so many ways, but it's, again, trusting your own inner voice, telling you what way of scaling is not the thing that is gonna make the most money, though, that if that's your goal.
Shoshanna French: Cool. Mm-hmm. , but. . If you're an entrepreneur, you have a passion for something. And if you want your passion to still be present when you scale, that's how your intuition could help guide you to which option is the most aligned option. And that's what I did. So, yeah. Uh, it's gonna take some time. I won't lie.
Shoshanna French: Scaling is not a small thing, so it's not a fast process. Mm-hmm. . . Just wanna be real about that. .
Erin Austin: Yeah. You said so many things in there that I wanted to, to circle back on. One is, you know, you're of course talking my language, you know, about, uh, uh, licensing your intellectual property to other people in order to grow your business.
Erin Austin: But going back to the, the podcast that you talked about a couple years ago, um, about what you have in your business that you are just using without thinking about the value it can have to other people. And, you know, I have a, a little thing I call, you know, is there a Rembrandt in your attic where we take people through the process of figuring out, you know, what is in there that you're undervaluing, you're just not even recognizing how valuable it is and how, um, and, and, uh, you know, kind of like that, you know, hidden thing in the attic that you, that you don't realize you have all that value in there.
Erin Austin: And, uh, and those are typically things that are internal things that you're using internally. to deliver value to your clients. Mm. But that you could turn it into something that could be separately, um, monetized as opposed to just you delivering services using it. Similar to the licensing or, um, the certification process.
Erin Austin: Um, and then as far as, you know, using your intuition to scale in a way that's authentic or true to you. , you know, that kind of, you know, uh, is consistent with what we want to do here, which is to get more wealth in the hands of women because of the value that they bring to their communities and to their families when they have more wealth.
Erin Austin: And that could be either in terms of, you know, that. Endgame of what the numbers, the, the money that they have that they can then distribute around. But it can also be the way that they grow and that they're thinking about those things as they're making decisions about how, what they're doing and how they grow impacts.
Erin Austin: Maybe they do it in a way that they can share their expertise with more people because they do it in a way that's easier to access for more people. or May, where they're doing it in a way that just maximizes their profits so that they can distribute more of it to those in needs. So, All those things are super important.
Erin Austin: Thank you for sharing those. So it sounds like you may be setting up your business for, to scale it some days to sell it someday. Is that correct?
Shoshanna French: That's a new thought. . Uh, so every year I go to a mastermind and I was in one this year in January, um, with, I call it my brain trust, these. Smart entrepreneur people in really different industries and someone said, okay, like we know you are the subject matter expert on practical intuition.
Shoshanna French: Like there's no question of it. Mm-hmm. , you know, you've done your work over the last, you know, six or seven years and people think of you when they think of practical intuition. , but we want, we really want, and this was like a we thing. Mm-hmm. , we really can see a possibility for you switching from that subject matter expertise and expert, which is very focused on how do I leverage my expertise to grow my business, but from more like a revenue perspective.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. into being a business owner. Mm-hmm. , which is just a, like, to me that, that's like a different mindset, right? So, . I have friends who are serial entrepreneurs because they start business. The moment they start it, they have in mind that they're gonna sell it. Mm-hmm. and they build it really differently.
Shoshanna French: Right. You do build it. So 18 years into business, I am like thinking about things that probably would've been real helpful to think about , you know, 10 years ago. But I didn't think about it. It was like, I need to make enough money because that's how related my business, like I need to make, make enough money.
Shoshanna French: to, to cover what I need to cover in my expenses. And then it really started doing well and then did better than that, and then better than that. And it was like, oh, well, I wanna change my lifestyle. I want to, you know, create other streams of income, but I still wasn't in the place of, oh, you could sell it, so, mm-hmm.
Shoshanna French: when, when I more seriously begin to entertain the CER certification program, the thought I had was, . There is different models even of that. Mm-hmm. , am I required to certify people? I was like, Nope. because that is clunky. . What would be smarter is to train trainers. Yes. Mm-hmm. and have them train. So I'm not required.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. because I've got like one book almost done and like four outlines written for others. because this is like, my brain has got some ideas, it's got some ideas, , I'm like, ooh, let's do. And, uh, all my clients teach me stuff and then I wanna write about what I learn and train, you know, in working with them.
Shoshanna French: So it's how my brain, but, uh, I was like, well, even having them train. , there still has to be like, I can't always rely on other people to be trainers either. So, you know, and then I looked right, I started talking to other entrepreneurs, other business owners who've done this successfully. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, and so I've talked to three or four and I've got three or four more kind of on the books to chat with more.
Shoshanna French: I'm gathering kind of information, but what I landed on is online modules. Hmm mm-hmm mixed with these trainers who can kind of like coach people along the way, but eventually even the coaching they've done after a year of them doing it will have more information and then those will become modules and manuals and all of that.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. so that in three to five years, that's kind of my plan and three to five years from now. Simple spirit, this business that has held my IP around practical intuition. Mm-hmm. and this certification program in intuitive decision making, it will be poised with all of this, uh, content is the wrong word, but you know what I'm saying?
Shoshanna French: Like all of the stuff to back up the ip. Mm-hmm. , like usable stuff that then will. , juicy, yummy to someone. And then maybe they'll wanna add it to like their already existing training. Right. You know, people mm-hmm. . Yeah. It, it probably will go to people who do corporate, you know, kind of like coaching or executive coaching, right.
Shoshanna French: Or that kind of thing. Or life coaching people, a life coaching company. Mm-hmm. , probably not a woowoo spiritual kind of thing. I don't think it would go that way. Mm-hmm. , but you never know. I am not attached to the end result, but now I have in my mind, three to five years. So now, , uh, thinking from my business owner brain, which is new, and she's a baby because she is just trying this thing out.
Shoshanna French: she's like, she's like, Bambi. When Bambi tried to walk and then fell on the ice, that's a little bit how it's going. I'm thinking now like, okay, so how do we set the business up also that I'm not required to run it either. Mm-hmm. . So, um, in that in December, I hired a operations manager, um mm-hmm. . I've had VAs and ea, but I've never had an operations manager.
Shoshanna French: It's
Erin Austin: freaking glorious.
Shosanna French: It's glorious. It's the best thing ever. It's so awesome. And so her job, like we created focuses for every quarter of this year. because really like the, for me, my word, I like your phrase, my word this year I like it was do less better. Yes. Uhhuh. . I love that. Minus sacred joy. . So for me, what is joyful doesn't mean not being busy because I love what I do.
Shoshanna French: Mm-hmm. , but it means being smarter. Mm-hmm. about what I'm doing. Right. And so that's, this first quarter is all about, you know, what are the structures that are leading us towards really s like, I need to be able to show in the numbers in the company, you know, what, what, what lines of product. Make money. So if someone was looking at buying the business, they go, you know, what's the one time, three time, five time?
Shoshanna French: Because that determines what I could sell it for. So absolutely, it's starting to think from there. Like I said, you're, you're
Erin Austin: definitely ,
Shoshanna French: but I'm thinking about it .
Erin Austin: Well, I like to tell people that who, if they may be at the beginning of the journey and they feel like selling is just like way out there.
Erin Austin: That the same things that will be attractive to a buyer that will help you sell the business are the things that will help you scale it now. So putting those things in place are the same things that will help you grow smartly, um, uh, while you're still running the business and set you up for the sale when you're ready for it.
Erin Austin: So it it's not a someday maybe thing, it's a today thing to have the most efficiently run, most profit. Business, so this is
Shoshanna French: good. I love that. Things that would be attractive to potential buyers are the things that really work in scaling. Yes, absolutely. Ooh, that is so good. I wrote that one down too.
Shoshanna French: You've had so many gems today. I'm like,
Erin Austin: I, you know, well, you've helped me so much as well. I like, I used these episodes as like my own little, I get my own little coaching. A free coaching session from my, from my guests. That was awesome, . I
Shoshanna French: love that. So yeah, it, it for sure is possible, whatever it is you do.
Shoshanna French: Can you do me a favor though? Cause you haven't done this and so now I'm curious, how do you define. Scalable, like scaling? What is scaling to you? Scalable, because, just so I have that definition.
Erin Austin: So I, well, well, I, I'll use actually something that you said, which is turning your business from an expert based business, meaning you as the human to an expertise based business, which is a separate asset that can be leveraged.
Erin Austin: So that means, you know, taking the stuff out of your head. and putting it into, um, you know, processes, SOPs, training materials, books, courses, and therefore it can be delivered and you can profit from it without you, so that your, your income is not tied to your time. So we're decoupling your income from your time by Yeah.
Erin Austin: Becoming an expertise based business instead of an expert
Shoshanna French: business. So that's, Ooh, thank you for, I was like, I need her to define it because I'm like, am I literally just blowing smoke up on my own, honey? No. Actually scaling. I'm like, no. The other thing I'm working on right now is a membership. Uh, and so that's a thing too, is.
Shoshanna French: I have. I have. So I mean 18 years of content, right? Yes. So it's like I have a library and I have the membership already, but it's like how do I want people to engage with it and to help people? And so that's also an intuition thing, but thank you for defining that. That's super helpful. I appreciate that.
Erin Austin: All right, well we're gonna wrap off. This has been a wonderful conversation, but I wanna before we leave, you know, we, um, believe in creating economy that is works for everyone. And as part of that mission, I like to have people share organizations that you admire that are part of that, um, journey of creating
Shosanna French: an economy that works for more of.
Shosanna French: My, and I'm biased, I've already said this, but my very favorite one right now is Black Girl Ventures. Mm-hmm. . They are a nonprofit organization that is, um, , uh, corporate, we, no, like housed in DC mm-hmm. . Um, the founder is Shelly Ola Bell. Mm-hmm. , uh, they help black and brown female business owners, uh, get access to funding.
Shosanna French: Black women are starting businesses at six times the rate of any other business starters. Mm-hmm. , but get less than 1% of funding. And so it is a. It is a nonprofit that I love, but it's also something that really, really matters to me. Women, black women, having access to funding to be able to, I mean, You all got some great ideas and I'm excited for what she's doing.
Shosanna French: And so you can either follow her, uh, you can follow her OMI Bell on Instagram. Yeah, this will all be in the channels. Yeah. So yeah, she's amazing. And, um, hopefully if you're so inspired, you can support either by sharing the organization with others or directly giving funds if you are so, That's fantastic.
Shosanna French: I love that. And
Erin Austin: so I know there's something, uh, you have an offer for the, for the audience, something that you're working on that you'd like to share with them as
Shosanna French: well? Yeah, so if you go to my website, simple spirit.com, you will find the intuitive blueprint test. And the intuitive blueprint test takes like maybe five minutes to take.
Shosanna French: At the end of that, you will have results explaining how your intuition works, and if you take it, you'll be offered 10 free days of the library. It is a, it's full of information about training your intuition, and even 10 days we'll give you the opportunity to take classes on how to apply your intuition in business.
Shosanna French: Even if that's all you did and we didn't work together or you didn't engage with any of my other stuff, you could take one class that is about applying intuition to business and that could get you started right away. And that's totally free.
Erin Austin: Oh, love that. Thank you for that. You're welcome. And so you mentioned one place I can find you at your website.
Erin Austin: Where else can people find you? Where do you hang out?
Shosanna French: Show Shauna French Stokes My married name that's on Instagram. Shoshana French on Facebook. That's where you can find me. LinkedIn Shoshana. Fantastic.
Erin Austin: Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and intuition with us today. It's been fantastic, uh, conversation and uh, yeah, I hope
Shosanna French: we'll do this again.
Shosanna French: Thank you, Erin. I appreciate your time.
Erin Austin: Thanks.