Ep. 39 - Why (and how) Connection + Community are the Key to a Profitable, Scaleable Business with Kylie Hodges

Erin Austin: Hello ladies. Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I am so excited for today's guest, Kylie Hodges. Hi, co. Kylie.

Kylie Hodges: Hi. Thank you so much for having

Erin Austin: me. Well, uh, we have lots to talk about. This is one of those episodes where there are a dozen things regarding the hourly to exit journey that we could talk about, but we're gonna try to narrow it down to a couple.

Erin Austin: But before we get started, would you introduce yourself to the.

Kylie Hodges: Of course, uh, my name is Kylie Hodges. I help ambitious community builders convert enthusiastic fans to paying clients by building profitable businesses. So working with me, uh, people learn how to utilize their natural ability to attract community.

Kylie Hodges: And create connections that actually convert. Uh, they learn to structure and sell impactful offers and programs and they learn how to grow while working with their A D H D anxiety or depression. And the goal is so that they can make the kind of money and impact that makes them wanna yell. Hell yeah.

Kylie Hodges: Well, I love that.

Erin Austin: Well, thank you. Why you mentioned the H adhd, anxiety and depression because those really stuck out, they really popped for me on your website. And so I wanna, you know, and I obviously it all is part of connection and community. Yeah. But in particular, like how did you focus on that? Have you found that the similarities.

Erin Austin: Of that market are kind of psychographic, like Ramon of a certain age or more psychographic, you know, uh, you know, they have these challenges and they need help with these

Kylie Hodges: specific challenges. Yeah, good question. So I've just found, you know, Uh, I, I say this to my clients, you can build what you can speak to, and I can speak to that experience.

Kylie Hodges: I'm someone that is diagnosed with a D H D, anxiety and depression, and when I was diagnosed with those things as a, as a chronic oversharer, I learned that a lot more people could relate to me than I realized. And so, yes, I'm a business coach, but if I wasn't acknowledging what was going on with me internally, Then I couldn't even apply my own practices, and so it became a no-brainer that if I'm struggling with this, my clients are certainly struggling with this too, and so let's do the revolutionary thing and actually serve ourselves.

Kylie Hodges: While we're serving others. Excuse me.

Erin Austin: Yeah. That, that's, we both are coming at our businesses from similar perspectives, where I, of course work with, uh, experts to help them turn their expertise in intellectual property and build scalable, scalable businesses. And, you know, that hourly to exit journey. I mean, is there any more hourly entrenched profession than lawyers?

Erin Austin: And, you know, building a business where I'm not just trading my time for money. And, and you have, you know, our issues are our client's issues in so many ways. Oh yeah. But back to the A D H, adhd, I'm gonna stick with that for a second because Yeah, yeah. Um, I feel like a D H D is one thing. We think about that in children.

Erin Austin: We don't think about it that much as adults and adults getting that diagnosis. Can be really revelatory, the things that they're so frustrated with. How come I can't follow through? How come I can't focus? You know? How did you, when did you get diagnosed and what did it look like before and after? Whew.

Kylie Hodges: Well, I got diagnosed, um, actually that's a good question. I think it was in 20. 21. No, it was, it was very early 2022. However, I had spent about a year advocating for myself to get diagnosed. Um, and look, I'm not a medical doctor. I can't speak to like, getting yourself diagnosed, but for me, and what I've learned from other people or mostly other women identifying folks is that, uh, a couple of things.

Kylie Hodges: It's not easy to get diagnosed as an adult. Mm-hmm. Mainly because the medication link to it is addictive. It usually results in getting medicated with Adderall, which I do have a prescription for. I've actually been trying to go off of it, but that's just my own personal preference. I'm trying to figure out how to work with my h d and not.

Kylie Hodges: Medicate it, even though it has been really helpful at times. The other thing is, um, there's still, uh, in the medical community, there isn't actually any, um, ugh, I'm not a doctor, so I'm like missing the terminology, but basically in the medical textbooks, there's not any particular thing about adult onset adhd.

Kylie Hodges: It's a thing that you look for in kids, and then if you don't get it as a kid, then it's like, well, they probably don't have it. Right? And I didn't have it as a kid, and I absolutely think Covid and the massive life changes that happened to all of us during that year plus really messed with me in a way that amplified whatever symptoms I had that were maybe a little bit A D H D, they just skyrocketed.

Kylie Hodges: So before I got diagnosed with A D H D, I struggled with really basic stuff that I was really ashamed about being on time, getting out of bed, which is also linked to depression, um, and anxiety. Um, being able to listen, like I, I really want to listen, but my mind would do me dirty and take me in another direction.

Kylie Hodges: What are some other symptoms? Oh, and, um, like overwhelming to-do lists. So, you know, I, I still do it, but I'm better at recognizing it. But I have pages of to-do lists and in my mind it's like, yeah, I can do all this in, you know, an hour. Of course, it's very all or nothing, black and white thinking. And do I still struggle with this now after my diagnosis?

Kylie Hodges: Yes. However, getting diagnosed is like a relief because it just gives an explanation for what's going on with me and it, the, the biggest change I would say is that I was able to identify, it's not an inherent flaw of who I am. It is not who I am that I. Struggle with organization in my business that somehow I'm always procrastinating and everything gets down to the last hour or minute.

Kylie Hodges: Um, it, it's just a symptom of a thing that I've got right. And now I just need to acknowledge it, uh, detach myself from identifying to it. It's not who I am inherently. Figure out how to work around it. So I'm really blunt with my clients, like mm-hmm. I don't do early morning stuff. Mornings are just really hard for me.

Kylie Hodges: Um, I don't do, uh, I try to do everything that would be like, if I could press the easy button, how can I make this happen in an easy way? Because over complicating stuff is a symptom of h adhd. And then, When you pile on depression and anxiety, it results in, in freezing and doing nothing. Mm-hmm. Which then amplifies depression and anxiety.

Kylie Hodges: So to me, I found like asking myself, what is the easy button here? Is the way to help me navigate running my business successfully, despite struggling with A D H D and anxiety and depression.

Erin Austin: Right. That is great. And so have you found that women are coming, well, I, I'm assuming that you work with mostly women.

Erin Austin: Tell me Yes. Tell

Kylie Hodges: me if I'm wrong. Most, most of my client base is women. Um, I don't currently have any male clients, but I have in the past. Mm-hmm.

Erin Austin: Yeah. And so are people self-identifying and going, you know, I've. These issues where I think I have these issues. So let me go talk to Kylie cuz

Kylie Hodges: she understands me.

Kylie Hodges: You know what's funny is my most recent client who I got, she was like, I think I have this and I think I have that. And after she hired me it was, she just needed the accountability and the gumption. Or the validation from someone else to get herself to go speak with her, her doctor. Mm-hmm. So like, again, I'm not diagnosing people and I'm not like, if you think you have h d, don't come to me first.

Kylie Hodges: Just go to your doctor. But what she was noticing was she was struggling with things in her business, and yeah, she absolutely needed a tweak in her marketing strategy and sales strategy. But first what she needed to do was take care of herself internally because. She was allowing her behaviors, which it turns out she does have diagnosed anxiety and A D H D, um, she wasn't, the way she was behaving with herself was resulting in.

Kylie Hodges: Fractures in her business foundation. And so we did a deep dive. She made an agreement that she was gonna go talk to her doctor and also start therapy and wouldn't she know it? Once she did those things, then the ball started rolling and she could finally show up and work for herself. Right? Yeah. And then so it's very common.

Kylie Hodges: It's very common in that if there's someone who is struggling, like they're like, I just can't get myself to do this, or I can't seem to make a decision. It might be you're confused. It might be you really don't know what a, a helpful marketing funnel looks like for you, but it also might be that like you are treating the c e O of your business really poorly and you need to give that person the health and the self-care that they need in order to show up for work, right?

Erin Austin: Yeah. I often wonder how much of resistance is actually resistance. You know, you just don't wanna do it or whatever the barriers are. Yeah. Versus something like, you know, brain fog or A D H D or something similar and it's, I think it's kind of a continuum of things, but there are. Many things that we need coaches to help us work through, not not medical things, but some mindset issues, organization issues and clarity.

Erin Austin: Let's put it that. Yeah, put it that way. So tell me about how you work with your clients to help them kind of move forward.

Kylie Hodges: Great question. So, like I said earlier about how can I hit the easy button? I tried to apply that. What is only the bare minimum information that my client needs to hear right now in order to move forward?

Kylie Hodges: Um, my goal of working with my clients is to help them get out of. Whatever is stop, get out of the way of whatever is stopping them and start taking action. I'm always saying, what's the d plus effort here? Hmm. Mm-hmm. D plus is bad enough. Yeah. Well, and so there's a lot of perfectionism that gets wrapped up in, in a lot of my clients, and that's also very much a symptom of, of all the things I listed.

Kylie Hodges: Um, but, uh, I used to, this isn't necessarily. Uh, advice, but when I was, my senior year of college, my last semester, senior year of college, I was so ready to move. I was, I already had a job lined up. I was very lucky and I was like, get me outta here. And my mantra became D'S get degrees. Which again, if you're in college, maybe don't listen to that, but the reason I share it with my clients now is because like we're going for D plus effort here because your first effort is not gonna be an A.

Kylie Hodges: We have to accept that. Do the D plus work first, and then you can refine it to B, a C, and then a B, and then an A. To get yourself moving, we have to be okay with producing imperfect, messy firsts. Mm-hmm. So to answer your question of like, how do I work with people? How do I help them? A lot of my clients are na.

Kylie Hodges: They have a natural ability where they attract people. They're really good at connecting and creating a sense of community, and they just haven't figured out how the heck. To structure a business around it that's actually paying them well and going deeper with how they wanna help people. So I really help them focus on, okay, what are your offers or services or products that are meeting people where they are?

Kylie Hodges: And also taking you where you wanna be going in your business. Like what is that happy intersection? Um, what is your sales process doing that's also serving your community for. Like, how can we flip that so that it's, it's not, I'm feeling salesy, it's, I'm actually creating a deeper sense of connection when I am selling.

Kylie Hodges: Mm-hmm. And also it's your marketing. How are you using your marketing as a way to help your community connect with each other on a deeper level? So I really focus on those three things, and it all ties back to how can we give the business owner the life, the space, the. The money and the impact that they really want.

Kylie Hodges: Mm-hmm.

Erin Austin: Right. Absolutely. And so one of the things that you mentioned is, oh, I'm, it was

Erin Austin: totally blanking. I should have written it down.

Kylie Hodges: This is very relatable. I know, exactly.

Erin Austin: We're gonna, we're gonna have to move on from that. Um,

Erin Austin: gosh. I thought it was brilliant too. All right.

Kylie Hodges: It probably was brilliant. It'll come back to you tomorrow morning in the shower.

Erin Austin: I hope so. Hopefully.

Erin Austin: So when you work with your clients then, yeah. So do you like to, do you work with them one-on-one or do you create community with them, work with them in a community? Like how, what is your best way, your most effective

Kylie Hodges: way? Yeah, good question. So I, um, will not work with people only one-on-one. And it's because I know that there's so much value in.

Kylie Hodges: Being in community even when you're learning. Mm-hmm. So while, um, my, my program is called the v i p Inner Circle, um, and it is a hybrid program. Yes, they get me as their private business coach, but also it's a mastermind format, so it's a very intimate and small group. Um, and there's training, there's q and a, there's retreats, um, we have accountability sessions or accountability and like co-working.

Kylie Hodges: Um, I do little micro boot camps on like, we're gonna practice sales today. We're gonna practice building out our, our marketing funnels today. Um, and the reason that I also strongly encourage my clients to never offer just one-on-one is because you are depriving people of a sense of connection and a sense of.

Kylie Hodges: Community that can help them feel more glued to what you're creating. Mm-hmm. Like you don't even need to be around necessarily, but when you create a container or a space for people to do co-learning or even just to develop relationships, that is strengthening the glue. Your client's wanting to sign another contract.

Kylie Hodges: It's, it's the gift that keeps on giving, it gives them an opportunity to learn a different way. And I ki I compare it to, you know, um, my mom was always telling me, put on sunscreen and I was like, I don't wanna listen to you, mom, don't tell me what to do. But then I go on Instagram and I listen to the beauty gurus.

Kylie Hodges: I put on sunscreen and I. Did you know we need to put on sunscreen? I had no idea. So sometimes clients just can't hear everything that comes outta my mouth because, you know, I'm mommy dearest in this situation. Um, they need to just hear it another way from someone else. And sometimes that means when they're, they're equals are in a space with them learning as they go.

Kylie Hodges: They can hear it better, they can hear it differently. I

Erin Austin: love that. So there are two things that you mentioned. So community as both an input, like helping feed you and your business, helping you think about things differently, relieving some of the loneliness of, you know, what is now mostly a. Primarily work from home environment for many.

Erin Austin: I'm sure many of your clients are working from home. Yes. If not all of them. Mm-hmm. And then also it is an output as one of Yes. The offerings as well. And so I, I love that that, you know, like kind of that 360 degrees of the benefits of building community and community as a revenue model is not something I hear very often.

Erin Austin: Tell me how you help people work with that.

Kylie Hodges: Okay, first of all, very good ear that you noticed that whole community is a holistic thing. We as humans need it. We are, uh, we come from people that would die if they weren't in it back way back in the caveman days. Mm-hmm. Um, and. You know, part of the struggle I've experienced with A D H D and anxiety and depression were only amplified during covid when I felt so isolated from community.

Kylie Hodges: And there is absolutely a parallel here in when we isolate ourselves and our businesses with our clients, and also personally and emotionally, we are, we're restricting ourselves. From what is possible. And when we lean into community, internally in our businesses and externally in the way we show up in the world, it's only growth and expansion and, and, um, fulfillment and, and just being okay is what's possible.

Kylie Hodges: So to get a little bit out of the like vague intangible feelings part of it, and into the tangible stuff, what that looks like. Is this the word leverage? Like my favorite word in the world, um, Mevo. Let's leverage what you've got so. A lot of people hear community, or like I I said earlier, I help, uh, ambitious community builders convert enthusiastic fans.

Kylie Hodges: Sometimes people hear that and think, oh, influencers, like, I don't, I don't have thousands of people on my email list. That's not me. It's actually not true. Um, your community is just, who are the people you know, who are the people that are right there in front of. Or maybe not even the people you know, but the people who are following you on Instagram, you might not know all of them.

Kylie Hodges: So it's how can we leverage what we've got right now? How can we leverage that in our marketing? How can we, just, like I said earlier, when you create a sense of community internally within your clients and that becomes the glue to keep them wanting more, let's apply that to your market. When you're building out your marketing funnel, how can you have your community develop a stronger sense of connection with each other and you every step of the way along your funnel?

Kylie Hodges: Mm-hmm. That way you're making a bigger impact in the world when you have. A free offer of a free P D F, or you know, a free Facebook group or whatever. What can you do to help people develop a deeper sense of connection, not only to your messaging, but also other human beings in the process? That is a way to amplify your message, but also, Make up a greater impact on the world.

Kylie Hodges: And a lot of the people that I work with are very message driven. They're people, people, and so they're building a business because they, they have either a, a natural talent or a very strong skillset, but also they really care about. Explaining the purpose of that message or that skillset globally. And so how can we do that?

Kylie Hodges: By creating little micro brand ambassadors every step of the way in your, in your marketing. And when you're having sales conversations, making it not about you, but about the person you're talking to. That right there is deepening a sense of connection with that person. You're giving them a great gift, which is being heard, and then when they're inside your business, How are you helping them go deeper with the transformation they desire in terms of having them feel connected and plugged in to the other people and the type of space that can help them live into their, their most, their best self, for lack of a better term, I think.

Kylie Hodges: I think that's everything I was gonna say. I also forgot what I was gonna say. Halfway through that answer. We're

Erin Austin: gonna make Anne work for this, this, so, so I'm gonna come back to leverage cuz you and I Oh yes. Love that. But first I'm gonna go back to, um, what you said about brand ambassadors and Oh yes.

Erin Austin: Connection and community. I love that because it reminded me of my personal experience with. As we, I mentioned before we started recording that I live in a kind of excerpts of Washington, DC and anyone who knows this area, like, you know, you don't go inside the beltway unless you know, like the president's being inaugurated.

Erin Austin: I mean, I you, otherwise I forget about it, right? And so this is pre pandemic. Like I never, so I. I was out here, my little, you know, home office doing my work. Um, there weren't really on a lot of online networking of opportunities. You had to go into the city to go to lunches or go to things and, you know, it would take me longer to get into the city in the evening because of the reverse traffic than it would, you know, if you left in the morning.

Erin Austin: So I never did any stuff like that. And then Covid comes along, you know, wor worst thing ever. But it did. And suddenly there were all these opportunities to network online, to build community online, and it frankly has been a game changer for my business to be able to build community with so many people online.

Erin Austin: And to create those little ambassadors. Like there's, these are things I never could have done without, you know, the people who I match your mind with, you know, that go out there and go, oh, you gotta talk to Erin, or whatever, you know, or introducing me or be able to do, have conversations like this, you know, that just weren't really happening before.

Erin Austin: And so, um, yeah, I mean, community is a hundred percent, it's, it, it is absolutely essential to. Sense of wellbeing, but so, you know, we just can't do this alone. We really do need our community around us to help, to help out. All

right,

Kylie Hodges: so may I say something about the brand ambassador term? Yes. So, I wanna just share a little bit about why I use that term and why it's so important.

Kylie Hodges: My first adult job after graduating college was as the spokesperson and driver of the Oscar Meyer Wiener Mobile. Do you know what that is? Yes. When you asked if I'd been to DC before, my first time was in the Wiener Mobile on Pennsylvania of all places. And it's a 27 foot long hotdog on wheels. And my job for one year was to drive that thing all around the country as the national spokesperson of it.

Kylie Hodges: So while the really sexy highlights are, I was on the Today Show at CNN and I got to close the be at the New York Stock Exchange, sexy, most of the job was actually really unsexy. It was standing in Walmart parking lots, handing out coupons and taking pictures of people in front of it. But here's the.

Kylie Hodges: Whether I was on the Today Show, being seen by a million people, or standing in a Walmart parking lot in Lexington, Kentucky talking to one person, my message was always the same, and my goal was always the same, um, to show up in a way that made people feel good and understood what I was doing. And it wasn't a false sense of making people feel good, it was just give people a moment of feeling heard and experiencing a little joy in their day.

Kylie Hodges: So internally, uh, as Hotdoggers, which was my job title, there were 12 of us, we were trained to be the Disney of Oscar Meyer. Give someone a delightful experience on their, you know, random Tuesday afternoon, picking up groceries when it's a really hectic work week. And what I found, I was using the same talking points every day, all day, and we would measure how many people we spoke to by how many wiener whistles we gave away, which are those tiny little plastic toys.

Kylie Hodges: So I spoke to anywhere from 500 to a thousand people a day, and what would happen was I would have a really delightful conversation with. How are you doing today? You ever seen the Wiener mobile before? Oh, you grew up, you grew up seeing it on tv. That's so fun. Would you like a picture with it? Oh my gosh.

Kylie Hodges: Tell me more about your neighbor who used to work for Oscar Meyer. Really basic stuff, but that moment of connection, not only it, it made me feel good because I was able to just bring a little joy to someone's day. It's pretty easy to make someone smile when you're driving a giant hotdog car. Yes. But also because I understood that my messaging was getting through to them in the way that I was instructed to do so.

Kylie Hodges: But also it made them feel good because they would always say, Ugh, I'm gonna, I'm, can you take a picture of this in front of me? I'm gonna show this to my grandkids. They're gonna love this. And I always try to channel that Now in my business, like I was a literal brand ambassador. For a hotdog company.

Kylie Hodges: Okay? And I know that it's a lot easier to get people to wanna share about seeing a 27 foot long hotdog car at Walmart than it is to run into a lady who's a business coach and talking about marketing funnels and sales strategies, however, I channel that in everything that I do, and I tell my clients to do the same.

Kylie Hodges: What can you do to evoke a stronger sense of joy or ease or whatever it is that you are trying to create in your, in your business? And do that in tangible ways while connecting with people so that they want to go out and be brand ambassadors and in the Wiener mobile. How did I know that I was creating brand ambassadors?

Kylie Hodges: Because people would post the picture I took of them on social media and tag Oscar. Or they would share it in the Oscar Meyer Facebook page and they would say, I loved talking to catch up Kylie today. So now I think about how can I measure the brand ambassador impact in my own business? Well, how many clicks am I getting on this link?

Kylie Hodges: How many views or how many shares? You know, it's, it can translate however you need it to, but the purpose is always is the messaging and the way I'm showing up, actually making a tangible. That's why I say let's create people who are brand ambassadors. What can we do within ourselves to get our message across in a way that activates people to take action?

Erin Austin: All right. Yeah, I like that. And you know, it reminds me of, um, there's a couple of people, I wanna say certainly Jonathan Stark, uh, who talks about, you know, Having a brand that is very, um, like a, people have a Rolodex moment. So when they think about, like someone says, you know, I'm looking for someone to help me with strategy, or, you know, they immediately think of, you know, Kylie or, you know, I'm looking for, and uh, and so to be able to get there, I imagine that you help people get that type of positioning and.

Erin Austin: And, uh, you know, referability so that they can really have a really tight, tight message for their, for their intended audience.

Kylie Hodges: Yeah. And you know what's funny is I noticed that a lot of my clients come to me thinking that it's like figuring out their messaging or their branding is like a Rubik's cube.

Kylie Hodges: They just haven't cracked the code yet. Mm-hmm. And it's not as complicated, or at least the way I approach it, is, like, it doesn't have to be complicated, it just has to be clear and. And you have to be okay with it not being clear and concise right away. Yeah. But the more you try it on like an outfit, the more you see what fits and what works.

Kylie Hodges: So Yes. And there's so much, it's, it's a lot of just getting started and like seeing the feedback you get from others to see if that messaging is working in the way you want it to work for you. Yeah.

Erin Austin: Yeah. It is tough to, you know, out. Dinner party or someplace and someone asks what you do and you know, it could say, well I'm a lawyer or whatever.

Erin Austin: Versus, you know, saying I help experts, you know, turn their, you know, build scalable and sell business. And so takes, it does, it's a muscle that you have to, to exercise cuz it's super easy just to, you know, kind of. When I'm a marketer, I'm a accountant. I'm, you know, and kind of keep going.

Kylie Hodges: So, yeah. Yeah. And what is that, what is that thing you're telling yourself when your instinct is, oh, I'm just a lawyer, right?

Kylie Hodges: Yeah. Like, it's like, oh, they don't actually wanna hear. Yeah. But again, creating a brand ambassador out of someone means that you have to share, you have to give them the enthusiasm that you want them to go. Right. So you ha that, that, uh, I help statement you were about to give is so great. People need to hear that.

Kylie Hodges: To really understand lawyer can mean a lot of things. Yes. Lawyer can sound scary. Yes. But you're the opposite. You're not scary. You're helping. Well, even worse,

Erin Austin: Laura sounds like, Hey, I've got this problem with my landlord. You know? Right. That

Kylie Hodges: to me is like, that's, that's right. Don't invite the wrong conversation.

Kylie Hodges: You don't want in, and by being really strong in how you show up in your messaging can really navigate the conversation. Good. Good point.

Erin Austin: All right, so we're finally gonna get to leverage. So our favorite, okay. Yes, yes. So, you know, hourly to Exit podcast, we talk about you. Moving from hourly building scalable businesses that hopefully we can sell some day.

Erin Austin: And the key to that is creating leverage in our businesses. I like to talk about it as you know, decoupling our income from our time. Tell me how you work with your clients to get leverage

Kylie Hodges: in their business. Well, first of all, yes, let's absolutely get out of that racket of trading dollars for hours. It's just not, uh, it doesn't make sense.

Kylie Hodges: Mm-hmm. Really? Um, if you're changing someone's life and you can do it in a half hour, is that really only worth, you know, $300? Um, so one of the things is actually that we're not trading dollar for hours. We're we're pricing based on transformation and. Um, another way I help people leverage is always asking the question, what can you do?

Kylie Hodges: So whether that's creating a product or a service that you know, you can sell right now without any required, um, refining. So I encounter a lot, a lot, a lot of my clients are people who. If they don't identify as perfectionists, they have perfection and behaviors, and one of those looks like, oh, I just need to go get another certification, or I just need to research a little bit more before I'm ready to do this thing.

Kylie Hodges: I suspect lawyers might also be in that bucket because there is, uh, yeah, like we have to do things by the books. We have to go get our proper permission slip before we can do this thing. And the beauty of entrepreneurship. Uh, as long, of course, like we're doing, we're ethically selling what we know we can sell.

Kylie Hodges: Um, the permission slip lies within you, so you don't need to wait for anybody else. So leveraging, what can I do now? Who is in front of me? Where else can I go? And we apply that to building out what is the thing you're. And if you're already selling something that's working well and we need to, or you, you're looking for a higher earning ceiling, then okay, how can we leverage the thing that's selling really well into making a lower priced offer that gives a little bit of access to that thing that's selling really well at a more affordable rate.

Kylie Hodges: That doesn't take any more time from you. You might not even need to do anything extra. It might actually save you time to sell it in this. And the same applies to your marketing. What do I have right in front of me? Who do I know? What kind of asks can I make in terms of sharing my offer or sharing my free webinar?

Kylie Hodges: Um, inviting people to, um, grab my free P d F. Um, and then same with sales, uh, leveraging. In terms of who is someone that's complimentary to what I'm doing that has access to more people I know I can help asking if there's a collab potential in there. Um, I mean, a business can fully thrive from the Petri dish that is leveraged.

Kylie Hodges: Yes,

Erin Austin: absolutely. So you mentioned pricing and pricing based on value as opposed to ours or deliverables. Yes. And I imagine perfectionists. Have real trouble pro. I imagine they have a lot of trouble with that, you know, cause there's a whole mindset thing. But, but I know I can do it in an hour, so how am I gonna charge, you know, $20,000?

Erin Austin: So something I can, that I can do like in my sleep, like, do you help them with, get over those mindset issues or in

Kylie Hodges: how? Of course. Of course. Um, you know, with pricing. There's a lot of nuance in this conversation because it really depends on where the entrepreneur is. If they're someone who is not selling nearly enough, um, and they just need to make more money, I'm actually less inclined to fight with them about adjusting their pricing and more inclined to focus on what is the thing that needs to change to get you to sell.

Kylie Hodges: Because once you sell one or two at this rate that isn't good, you are going to understand that you're gonna feel it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so then you're gonna be willing to make the change. So I don't make people do anything. And that's as someone who loves to control things, which is why I struggle so much with all the other things internally of.

Kylie Hodges: Of just life in general. Um, uh, you know, being a coach is like the ultimate practice of releasing and detaching and helping people do the same with themselves and detaching from the outcomes of what they're creating. And when it comes to pricing, it's usually not going. Feel urgent to change their prices until they're burning themselves out or they have a client that's not a good fit because pricing can help you.

Kylie Hodges: Pricing can help you get the right people in the door who are really committed mm-hmm. To either making the change that they wanna make that, that you can help them with. Yeah, getting the thing that you offer. And it can also, um, pricing allows entrepreneurs to play differently. And I talk, I recently was talking with a client about like, how would you be behaving if you were someone that charged a number that makes you wanna throw up like a thousand dollars an hour or something, or $10,000 an hour?

Kylie Hodges: Would you be behaving the same way as you do now? Mm-hmm. So let's start acting like the woman who charges $10,000 an hour. She's probably for ease, not charging by the hour and just creating a lump sum right In working with her. Mm-hmm.

Erin Austin: Yeah. Yeah, that I, I definitely, you know, cause I am straddling these worlds.

Erin Austin: Being a lawyer, you know, where, and being referred business, that's like someone's looking for an IP lawyer and, and being referred as business and having to have these conversations where they expect someone who's just gonna charge by the hour and they have a general idea what it will be and, and. And having to push back on, you know, I don't do that anymore.

Erin Austin: You know, I do these types of high impact things that would make sense for me to work with those types of clients. And it is, it takes, it takes, um, one, you know, having confidence in your ability to do the other stuff and, and, um, and to disappoint people. I mean, cuz it's hard, it's hard for a lot of us to say no.

Erin Austin: Right. You know? Yeah. Even when we know this isn't a good. But I could help them. It'd be really easy for me to

Kylie Hodges: help them. Well, and also when someone is pushing back by getting nickel and diving on the price, that's your opportunity as a, as a business owner to, this is a lesson I learned driving the Weer mobile.

Kylie Hodges: It's, it's bridging the topic to what is the bigger concern. If they're nickel and diming you for the price, then let's go back to, okay, why are they really. And you can ask them, so wait, what do you really want? Mm-hmm. Why is this important to you? Okay, so here's what, what it costs. Mm-hmm. Is it more important to you to pay a little less or to actually get the thing that you're looking for?

Kylie Hodges: That's great. Usually you wanna say it a little nicer than that, but Yeah.

Erin Austin: No, that makes sense. Like understand sometimes not outcome, like we're not talking about, you know, The deliverable. Yeah. We we're talking about the outcome, like what's the outcome you want and what is that, what's that worth to you?

Erin Austin: And

Kylie Hodges: now, yeah, like I always say, what is the desired transformation? You know, like people wanna be on the other side of the rainbow, they don't want just one step forward. Mm-hmm. And so do them the favor and sell them the thing that takes them all the way to the other side of the rainbow. Mm-hmm. Which is probably less work for you.

Kylie Hodges: Might cost them more, but we'll have them showing up to get to the other side of the rainbow. Mm-hmm. And not playing small by just being like, well, what's the next brick right in front of me? It's like, help them lift their head up, open their eyes, and look farther ahead mm-hmm. And help them and push them.

Kylie Hodges: Mm-hmm. To the end of the rainbow. Right.

Erin Austin: Yeah. And they may have incorrectly self-diagnose the problem as well. Like they may think that this is what they Oh yes. Right. What they need as well. So all. So let's connect this to intellectual property, shall we? Sure. So, so when, you know, when I, uh, talk to experts about kind of making that leverage leap, we talk about, um, turning their expertise in an intellectual property so that they have assets.

Erin Austin: I mean, you need to have assets in order to build, um, something that you can repurpose, um, make more efficient, perhaps sell separately. A business that you could sell someday. So when you're working with your clients, does intellectual property ever come in part of the conversation or asset building or how, how does that conversation go?

Kylie Hodges: Yes, and I always say, you gotta talk to a lawyer.

Kylie Hodges: It's a good thing I got you here. Yes. We talk about, I, I mean, we talk about IP in terms of, you know, we need to be mindful of always giving credit where it's. Um, and, and being intentional about, what are we saying? Is it something that we've picked up from someone else or is it actually your own? Yeah. Ip.

Kylie Hodges: Mm-hmm.

Erin Austin: Yeah, I imagine, cuz I. I know I've seen this on the consultant side where people are getting like certifications here and there and all these things, and that's basically what they're offering is a compilation of different certifications rather than having their own original kind of, uh, materials.

Erin Austin: And I imagine that happens in the coaching side as well.

Kylie Hodges: A hundred percent. I mean, even the way I work with people, you know, I'm not using specific language with you that I, um, do use with my clients internally because that language is not my ip. I'm certified under a specific methodology, but it's not my own.

Kylie Hodges: And so I will give credit when I'm giving it to, when I'm. Repeating it to my clients. I say, you know, this is that methodology and I really like it and I'm sharing it with you. Mm-hmm. Um, but I don't do it publicly and in marketing just because it's not mine to share. Right.

Erin Austin: That is so smart because, you know, when I talk to people about creating licensing programs or other things like that, You know, you, it has to be your stuff.

Erin Austin: You know, when you're getting something from a certification program or for, from some training that you received, that is for you to use with your clients. Mm-hmm. It's not to train other people to use, you know, that would, that would be a sub license and certainly that is restricted under the permissions that you have to use it.

Erin Austin: So,

Kylie Hodges: yeah. Yeah. I mean, the rule of thumb for me is if it's, if it's, um, If I'm in a place with people where I could be selling something to them, don't use that language, don't use that methodology. Wait until they're a client who signed a contract. Yeah. It's just safer that way. Perfect. And it's also a good exercise in figuring out like if I do work, um, with people in a way that is using a methodology that I have a license for, let's get into the practice.

Kylie Hodges: Figuring out how we would talk about it ourselves. Eventually, like 99.9% of my clients are gonna be in a place where they want to have their own IP that they can then, you know, license or at least protect legally in some way. So this is a good exercise in figuring out what the heck that even is, right?

Erin Austin: Absolutely. All right. So this is a very meta podcast, as you know. Female founders of expertise based businesses who are building them to hopefully sell them someday. So tell me, are you building your business to hopefully sell it someday?

Kylie Hodges: Oh, oh, I thought you meant to sell something. Uh, no. The exit part of I was like, yeah, I'm selling things all the, well, I've been talking about sales.

Kylie Hodges: That's a really interesting question that I don't think I've ever applied to myself, and I, I've definitely listened to other episodes, but it hasn't actually occurred to me right now. Would I sell my business? I actually don't know. Is that, that is all your, that's a fair

Erin Austin: answer. That is a fair question.

Erin Austin: But, you know, I like to say like, you know, you don't have to be thinking about. Exactly, because the same things that you do to help scale your business, to put leverage in your business are the same things that create a saleable business. So yeah, creating assets when you're creating independence from you personally, providing the services, putting systems in place.

Erin Austin: Yeah. Those are

Kylie Hodges: all for, I think, the build a business. I think the answer is yes. And um, you. My business currently is super personal. I don't have any other coaches under me using my methodology. Mm-hmm. And I know that day will come where I'm going to wanna start outsourcing people to work within my world.

Kylie Hodges: And I think in a way I see that as selling when I've removed myself as a touchpoint so that I can do other stuff, lean harder into my speaking gigs and workshop opportunities. I look at that as selling, even though it's still probably a business run by me. So I'm gonna say yes.

Erin Austin: That's the scale. That's a scaling part on your way to building a business.

Kylie Hodges: Yes. Yes. What a long answer to a yes or no question.

Erin Austin: So as we wrap up here, so. I think beyond ip in the hourly, the exit podcast, we believe in creating an economy that works for everyone. And so we love to give shout outs to organizations and people who help create a more equitable economy. Do you have an organization that you'd like to

Kylie Hodges: share? I do. Um, I think I share, I'm trying to remember which one I shared with you earlier, but I know that I mentioned the TIA Foundation.

Kylie Hodges: Yes, she sure did. Okay. So, um, the, I know the founder, her name is Mauna. Oh, I always just call her Una Una. Hey, soon. No. Hussein Katan. Oh God. If Mamuna is listening, I'm so sorry if I just butchered your name. But Tia is all about creating communities of support and, um, organizes access to economic opportunities for refugees or immigrants or displaced indigenous communities.

Kylie Hodges: So there's the foundation, and also if you're located in Los Angeles, they have a restaurant. Called? Oh no.

Erin Austin: Oh no. What's the restaurant? Because I was on their website earlier today. I should

Kylie Hodges: know this too. It's really close to my house. Shoot. I'm so sorry To your editor, it's

Erin Austin: little flavors from afar.

Erin Austin: Flavors from

Kylie Hodges: afar. TIA Foundation has a restaurant in Los Angeles. Called flavors from afar and it, they hire immigrants and refugees. They have chefs bringing in their own homeland, um, expertise cuisines, and it's a wonderful place to just give people who have been displaced income so that they can start their lives comfortably here.

Kylie Hodges: So I'm a really big fan of Mamuna and the TIA Foundation. Love that.

Erin Austin: Love Ethiopian food. And yes, next time I'm in LA I will make sure I check it out. Cause that's, yeah. So I know that you have a offer for the audience. Would you like to share

that?

Kylie Hodges: Yes. I have a mini course, totally free available. It's called Create Your Pathway to Profit.

Kylie Hodges: Uh, if you go to kylie hodges.com/free, you can grab it and you're gonna get a workbook that you can sit down and crank out all at once if you want. If you have a D h D and can't handle getting stuff done for more than 10 minutes, you will get seven videos over seven days that are five minutes long, walking you through one section of the workbook at a time.

Kylie Hodges: So you watch the five minute video, you spend five minutes on the workbook, and in one week you will have created a whole plan to profit. That is fantastic.

Erin Austin: All of this thank you will be in the show notes, so, uh, it'll be easy to find. And I, I thank you for that. That's very generous. So thank you. Thank you.

Erin Austin: People

Kylie Hodges: find you. Oh, well, people can find me on Instagram or LinkedIn. My name is Kylie Hodges on both. Mm-hmm. And, um, you can also shoot me an email if you wanna, if you wanna start talking one-on-one. I'm, I love connecting with people. Of course. As someone who talked about community for an hour, my email's Kylie.

Kylie Hodges: Kylie is ready to take your questions. Yeah, yeah. You wanna talk about hotdogs or business? I don't care. Um, it's Kylie, Kylie Hodges dot.

Erin Austin: Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Kylie Hodges: Thank you for having me. This was a great conversation.