Ep 104: Build a Stronger Business Through Brand Clarity with Suzanne Tulien Transcript

Suzanne Tulien [00:00:00]:

Branding is different than marketing. A lot of people think it's the same thing. So I always say you market a brand, right? So if you're out there marketing something you have not yet fully identified and defined, meaning your brand, then the question becomes, what are you marketing? So marketing and branding are two separate functions. So a brand is just a set of perceptions, and all of us already have a brand, whether we're conscious of it or not. The question becomes is, are you in control of it? Right.

Erin Austin [00:00:35]:

So would we equate a brand to like our reputation?

Suzanne Tulien [00:00:38]:

Yes, because your reputation is a set of perceptions that I think I know about you. It's how when we interact or if I were to purchase a service or a product from you, how that's delivered and how I feel and what my perception is of that experience. So I, as a business owner, can actually define that and take control of that. Or I could be passive in that and let everybody else brand me. Right. Without being conscious, strategic and deliberate.

Erin Austin [00:01:18]:

Welcome to Scaling Expertise. I'm Erin Austin, foundation founder of Think beyond ip. I'm an intellectual property lawyer who helps consultants, coaches, and other B2B experts turn their expertise into scalable revenue. Each episode of Scaling Expertise provides a behind the scenes look at how other experts have decoupled their income from their time. Do you have a success story to share? Find out how you can be the next guest on my podcast after this episode. Now, let's go. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Scaling Expertise podcast.

Erin Austin [00:02:04]:

Thank you for joining me for another fantastic episode where we talk about scaling our expertise and talk about other experts who have both scale their business and can help you scale your business. So this week I am joined by Suzanne Tulane with Brand Ascension to talk about branding. And so very excited to dig into the conversation. But before we get going with that, Suzanne, would you please introduce yourself to the audience?

Suzanne Tulien [00:02:34]:

Hi, everyone. I'm Suzanne Tuline. Just like Erin said correctly, Tulane, I am what I call a brand clarity expert. And that means that I help companies identify and define who they are as a brand so that they can identify that value position, walk the talk, and deliver on their promise to become who they want to be known for.

Erin Austin [00:02:55]:

That is fantastic. Before we started recording, we talked about personal brand versus the business's brand. And so I'd love to have you explain the difference and why it's important.

Suzanne Tulien [00:03:08]:

Well, maybe we should first talk about what branding is so I could explain the difference between the corporate brand and then the personal brand. But so branding is different than marketing. A lot of people think it's the same thing. So I always say you market a brand, right? So if you're out there marketing something you have not yet fully identified and defined, meaning your brand, then the question becomes, what are you marketing? So marketing and branding are two separate functions. So a brand is just a set of perceptions. And all of us already have a brand, whether we're conscious of it or not. The question becomes is, are you in control of it? Right.

Erin Austin [00:03:51]:

So would we equate a brand to, like, our reputation?

Suzanne Tulien [00:03:54]:

Suzanne Tulien [00:04:38]:

So we're going to name the perceptions we want others to have of us. That's the process of branding. It's not logo design.

Erin Austin [00:04:45]:

Yeah, I was about to say that. A lot of times people conflate brands and logos or their trademark and they're all, you know, but I'm not. And people think I'm anti trademark. I'm not. But they are definitely different things.

Suzanne Tulien [00:04:58]:

Your logo is that graphic symbol that over time becomes the trigger, the visual trigger for people to remember how they felt when they worked with you. Right. So that's the brand. So it's the tr. The trigger, the symbolic trigger that makes us think about the brand. So what do you want that trigger to mean? That's what I help my clients do.

Erin Austin [00:05:23]:

Oh, that's fantastic. All right, so with that foundation, personal brand, because mostly this audience is small businesses. So founder, operator, and or part of a small group of consultants or coaches or facilitators who work together. And so I think they probably have a pretty hard time separating their personal brand from their corporate brand. So let's talk about that.

Suzanne Tulien [00:05:49]:

Yeah, so when I brand an organization, I'm branding an entity. And this is a collective entity that together serves the public, serves the market. So that's a much different approach or process in focus and implementation at the internal level, because it's got to be infused and fed through the entire organization so that they're all walking the talk and delivering on their promise. So when I'm working with a solo professional, a subject matter expert in their field, and they are selling their intellectual property or they're selling themselves really to do some work. They are like the only ones or 1 of 2 or 1 of a small group of people, practitioners, brokers, agents, those types of people. Then they have to actually think about how they're showing up and they have total control over themselves and who they want to become known for. So we begin this process of the brand DNA, of what I call a personal brand presence. DNA is the unpacking of the attributes that make them who they are.

Suzanne Tulien [00:06:57]:

And then once we identify, we define those attributes and then we begin to align them more consciously to those attributes so that they are delivering more and more in alignment with those attributes. So our vernacular might change, our narrative changes a little bit because we're more in tune because we've identified and defined it and we've given it meaning for ourselves. And this doesn't mean that we're creating some character outside of ourselves. It's only the authentic fleshing out of those attributes that you really, truly want to be known for. And it's the assignment of meaning of me. Right. I am the brand. So what is Suzanne Tulane? Right.

Suzanne Tulien [00:07:40]:

It's that question. Yeah. So that's the difference between that personal brand, which is a little bit broader because it's more than just your job. It's how you show up in your family, with your friends out in the community, how you deal with your own financial issues, with how you deal with your own self care and wellness and well being. It's all of that. It's big.

Erin Austin [00:08:01]:

It made me think of culture like an organization's culture. But it's even like we, even as individuals, we kind of think of that as a group activity to culture. But you can have just your own culture and how people think about the way you move through the world.

Suzanne Tulien [00:08:17]:

I really like that you're me, myself and I. That's a little mini culture in your brain, right?

Erin Austin [00:08:23]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Suzanne Tulien [00:08:24]:

The clearer you are in who you are, the more you're able to co create experiences the way you want them to show up. Because you're more conscious, strategic and deliberate at doing so. Otherwise we are. I talk a lot about this in my workshops. If we're not in control of our own brand, then we're vulnerable to those external challenges, stimulations, those things outside of ourselves that keep us from going inward. Right. So we are impacted externally. So much so that we're no longer internally driven until we get more clear and more conscious, strategic and Deliberate?

Erin Austin [00:09:02]:

Yeah. I mean, because it can be, you know, your North Star, not just externally, but also internally. When you make decisions about who to work with, when you're clear on your brand, that's almost like two sides of the coin of your niche and your brand, because they both kind of have to work together. And it helps you make decisions about who you work for, how you work, what you're going to charge. All those things are all tied up in that.

Suzanne Tulien [00:09:29]:

I think you're spot on, Erin. You're right on it. Because you really start discerning differently when you are clear, you know, what's on brand for you or off brand for you. Right? Absolutely.

Erin Austin [00:09:41]:

And so many experts, professionals have a problem with this. It's very hard. I mean, I have good friends who, you know, this is really lawyers, honestly. I'll just make that clear. Just disclose that it's lawyers, that they will not turn away a client. Like, if someone wants something that they can do, they will do it. Like, why would you? I'm like, because you're all over the place and you're just, you know, law offices up. What does that mean? And so great.

Erin Austin [00:10:09]:

You know, you have some referrals and hats, but whenever they're struggling with business development, well, it's because you're just a lawyer for lack of a better, you know. And it's a tough one, though. And I'm sure lawyers aren't the only ones who do this. It takes a little bit of bravery, frankly, to.

Suzanne Tulien [00:10:24]:

Well, you know what I would say? Well, when you go and do that, you take everything you can possibly do. You dilute your brand. So you're really hurting the perceptions others have of you because they're not clear, it's fuzzy, it's gray. They don't understand you're doing all these different things. So the more empowering thing to do is get crystal clear and refuse or don't take or refer people that come to you for things that you kind of dabble in but aren't an expert. But the more you choose to stay in your lane and stay in your specific area of expertise, the more you become known for that and the more you co create that experience for yourself. It works that way. It's amazing how it works that way.

Suzanne Tulien [00:11:09]:

But you have to trust the process.

Erin Austin [00:11:11]:

Yes, absolutely. And it might be a process. Not everyone comes out of the womb, so to speak, and knows exactly who we're talking to and how, you know. And for me, it has absolutely been a process. Talking about intellectual capital and everyone's eyes glossed over like what? And then, okay, who am I talking to? What do they care about? Let's start using the language that they use. Talk about the things that they care about, not the things that I care about, which I think they should, but I think about a bit, a little bit differently than I do. So tell me how you help clients. I mean, this is the Scaling Expertise podcast, of course, so.

Erin Austin [00:11:45]:

So we want to talk about like how you work with your clients to help them scale.

Suzanne Tulien [00:11:50]:

I would say that the more clear you are, the more targeted your market is, the more open their ears become because they're hearing relevancy as to what you can solve their problem or how you can solve their problem. Niching is really, people think that you got to do more things in order to scale. But seriously, the more you niche, the bigger your opportunities become and the more expertise you can deliver on and become known for that because you're just more consistent in showing up in a certain area of expertise. More people get it, more people want it, more people realize they need it. It's just that way. So that's a unique way of thinking about scaling. Rather than thinking, I'm going to add this additional service to my portfolio of services. I'm going to stake, stay in my lane and really begin to tout what I can do in this lane.

Suzanne Tulien [00:12:43]:

Does that make sense, erin?

Erin Austin [00:12:44]:

Yeah, absolutely, 100 deeper. And when I run into consultants who don't have a niche and they're using third party materials, you know, maybe they're a coach and they went, they have an ICF certification or some other certification and they work with whoever needs there and then they realize they don't have anything original and they think like, how do I even get started? Well, if you have a niche, you know, we have all these general materials about how to be a coach, how to do leadership, how to do management consulting. But when you have a niche and you really understand again their language, their specific needs, you start to drill down on materials that are specific to them. That's where the original material, that's where your brand comes in. That's where you having intellectual property that you can protect and scale with comes in. So it all is one of the same kind of circle there.

Suzanne Tulien [00:13:37]:

And just a quick example for that. I have a client, a coaching client who is a leadership coach, like what you're talking about. And she has a lot of tools. She's been certified in so many different ways that she can actually approach and deliver her services to her clients. And when she went through my program Just recently, we drilled down to a key point that is core to who she is, which is the simple word called joy. And so what she's doing is she's grabbing a hold of that word and we're really. She's wanting to emphasize her ability to bring joy back into leadership. Oh, wonderful.

Suzanne Tulien [00:14:16]:

And so we're tapping into these people that are sensing leadership is becoming such a pain or it's becoming so frustrating or cumbersome or heavy. Right. That they can't. They don't have joy in it anymore. So she's like niched in a niche. She's niched in leadership. And then in that space, we're talking about joy. And boy, it's really starting to come together for her since she's able to use some new vernacular now and her stories and the way she delivers her stuff, it's really starting to attract some attention.

Suzanne Tulien [00:14:48]:

And she's just finished my program, so we're just now really putting it out there.

Erin Austin [00:14:53]:

That's fantastic. Well, that leads me to my next question, which is what pains are your clients feeling when they go, oh my gosh, I need to reach out to Suzanne. Like, what's happening in their businesses when they realize they need help?

Suzanne Tulien [00:15:05]:

Yeah, that's a great question. Mostly they know that they are an expert in what it is that they do. They can't seem to articulate it in a way that others are feeling, that it's non commoditized. Like lawyers are seemingly commoditized, insurance brokers are commoditized. You know, you get this sense of real estate agents. You know, how are they different? It's that pain of feeling like you're a commodity in a sea of other competitors within your own market, coaches, consultants, and that sort of thing. That's one of the biggest pains that they have. And also pricing is another.

Suzanne Tulien [00:15:41]:

Pricing what they're worth and attracting those clients that are willing to pay for that. When you've got the street credit and the differentiation, the proven capacity to do so, those are two of the most probably prominent things that people come to me for. They know they're the best kept secret in their industry and they don't know how to get that out there. Right.

Erin Austin [00:16:02]:

Being undifferentiated is the race to the bottom. Talk about it is. Yeah, not being able to price what you're worth and everything. All right, well, let's turn to your business now. And so how have you built skills, scale into your business?

Suzanne Tulien [00:16:16]:

Well, I am a speaker and trainer. I actually train speaker brands, so I love getting myself out there and talk about scaling. I'm not talking to in a networking environment, I'm talking to one or two or three people at a time. Maybe in a small circle, but when I'm on big stages, I'm talking to 500, a thousand people at a time. So that's one of the best ways to scale your expertise, become known as that industry expert on stage. So if you're not speaking now, you should consider it for sure. Even if it's just hosting workshops, you know, doing smaller two hour workshops and then after that they can buy more so to speak. So speaking is definitely one thing I like to promote.

Suzanne Tulien [00:17:00]:

And I get most of my coaching clients into speaking or training. I'm a certified trainer, so I created what I call trainer minded speakers so that they're infusing trainer techniques into their speaking delivery. And that's what guarantees and ensures that people are getting the information that's being infused into their hearts and minds so that they take action.

Erin Austin [00:17:25]:

So important. I was invited to speak to a group of the facilitators and I'm not a facilitator. And the process that I went through with them, you know, it's like, wow, this is completely different than what I had done before. I get up and I say my spiel and whatever and like, wow, what a difference it is when you know how to be trainer slash facilitator. It is a very different experience and so I have tons of respect for that.

Suzanne Tulien [00:17:55]:

So they say that, you know, the more you speak, the more you speak. And so it's just getting there little by little. The little bit more, the little bit more. Because people who see you speak want you to speak at their event and then they have known somebody and then they have you speak at their event, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So that's a great way to scale.

Erin Austin [00:18:13]:

Absolutely. And all the.

Suzanne Tulien [00:18:15]:

I have a few other things that I do.

Erin Austin [00:18:18]:

Oh please.

Suzanne Tulien [00:18:18]:

I've written three books, there's two right there. But scaling through being author and really documenting your area of expertise is key. You probably talked about that. In terms of scaling forward, it's a great credential card. You don't make a ton of money on books unless you're like assigned author from major publishing house. But I tell you what, people are interested after they hear you speak, after 20 minutes or so, 30 minutes, 2 hour workshop, and they want your information and then they want to buy it for their friends or their colleagues and that sort of thing. So that's a great way to get Your information out there.

Erin Austin [00:18:54]:

Yes. So you have not used the words intellectual property, but everything that you have mentioned that you use to scale your business is all intellectual property. Your speeches or workshops, your book, your training materials, all these things are intellectual property. And so how do you think about it explicitly as intellectual property? You just think about it as just getting my expertise out there. Like I love to hear about how non lawyers think about their intellectual property.

Suzanne Tulien [00:19:25]:

No, I'm. I'm actually very protective of my intellectual property. And because that's how I make a living, so that I charge hourly for consultations and coaching sessions, I'm not really delivering them anything other than conversation ideas and being a thought partner for these people. So I have to be able to charge for that qualitative, uniquely experienced conversation for them to glean from and learn from and take it and action it. Basically, my books are definitely copyrighted. Because they're copyrighted. I also have an online course for both the business brand DNA program as well as the personal brand clarity program. So that's, you know, protect that as well as I can possibly protect it.

Suzanne Tulien [00:20:15]:

And I actually don't give anybody my slides now. That's how protective. I spend hours in designing my programs and I'm happy to hand out a worksheet for the workshop, but I never get my slides out. It's my audience's job to pay attention. Right. And I help them pay attention through my techniques and my delivery. But they get that worksheet for a reason. That's what they get to take home and take any notes that they want.

Suzanne Tulien [00:20:43]:

But nobody gets my slide.

Erin Austin [00:20:44]:

Yeah, that is, I get that question a lot from people who, they have clients who want to record them and have all the materials and be able to do whatever they want to with them, frankly, put them on an intranet or train other cohorts with it. And a lot of people feel hesitant to say no when you have a corporate client.

Suzanne Tulien [00:21:03]:

Right, they do.

Erin Austin [00:21:04]:

And. But it's really important that we continue to control those materials and that if they want to continue to use them, they need to come back to you and for you to get paid for that. So that is a big part of what I help my clients with as well.

Suzanne Tulien [00:21:18]:

So good for you. Great.

Erin Austin [00:21:20]:

Yeah. I mean, hopefully people, you know, big part of my job is education, frankly, because most people, I am being paid for my time. So what else can I expect? Well, a lot more. Because you created this intellectual property that is yours, that is an asset. If you take someone on a taxi ride, you'd expect to Own the taxi afterwards. Like, you just get your ride and then you pay and get out. It's my car. So it's the same thing with our intellectual property.

Erin Austin [00:21:46]:

It's just as real. It's a real asset. It's real. And so making sure we are protecting it the same way we would protect physical assets we can hold in our hands.

Suzanne Tulien [00:21:56]:

So what amazes me a lot is that I can sell my book for 20 bucks on Amazon. Let's just say people will pay in the thousands to get me to come out and teach what's in the book, Right?

Erin Austin [00:22:07]:

Yes.

Suzanne Tulien [00:22:09]:

It's like, really, I can only sell my book for 20 bucks.

Erin Austin [00:22:14]:

Exactly, exactly. It's all in that IP. So you did mention your workshops. Tell me, was there something new happening? Anything that. Where you'd like to steer the audience to find out more about you or to work with you?

Suzanne Tulien [00:22:27]:

Well, I think the most exciting thing for the solo professional, the subject matter expert, and who is the brand of their business? The best thing for them to do and look at is probably the online course. You can do a live coaching package attached to that or just the course itself. And it's very reasonable. And it's something that will really, I think, inspire them to get to know themselves even better and know what they can step into and really become more of so that people recognize and create the correct perceptions that they want to be known for. So it's called personal brand presence.com is where they can go check out the landing page and read a bit more about it. But the coaching package is great because I like to coach in between the modules as they get through the module. So we're sure that they're fleshing out the exercises correctly and can move to the next one with the most honed outputs possible. And they get crystal, crystal clear and have a lot of aha moments and they get super excited about moving forward with this new kind of consciousness of who they are and what they can bring to the table that creates competitive advantage.

Erin Austin [00:23:32]:

Oh, fantastic.

Suzanne Tulien [00:23:34]:

That will be.

Erin Austin [00:23:34]:

We'll have that in the show notes. And thank you so much. This has been really wonderful conversation. I know the audience got a lot out of it. Everyone please make sure you check out Personal Presence dot com. Did I get that right?

Suzanne Tulien [00:23:47]:

Personal brand presence.

Erin Austin [00:23:48]:

Ah, there we go.

Suzanne Tulien [00:23:49]:

Dot com. The landing page for the. Yeah. Course, my company is Brand Ascension dot com.

Erin Austin [00:23:54]:

Perfect. Thank you. And again, that will be in the show notes. Thank you again, Suzanne, for joining us today.

Suzanne Tulien [00:23:59]:

Thank you, Erin. Great to chat with you.

Erin Austin [00:24:02]:

Yeah, thank you so much.

Suzanne Tulien [00:24:08]:

Erin. Here.

Erin Austin [00:24:09]:

Thank you so much for listening to Scaling Expertise. If you are a coach or B2B expert who would like to share your success story, please visit scalingexpertisepodcast.com if you got something out of this interview, would you please share it with your community? Or if you know someone who would be a great guest, please tag them on social media and tag me. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and other content to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Please subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and means a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to thinkbeyondip.com or follow me on LinkedIn and thanks for listening. I'll see you next time.