Eps. 46 How to Build a Profitable Expertise-Based Company with Betsy Jordyn

Erin Austin: Hello, ladies. Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I am so excited for today's guest, Betsy Jordan. Betsy, can you

Betsy Jordyn: say hi? Hi. So nice to be here. Thank you.

Erin Austin: We're stopping. I dunno why I said alright. Here we go again. Okay.

Erin Austin: Hello ladies and welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I'm very excited for today's guest, Betsy Jordan.

Betsy Jordyn: Hi Betsy. Hey

Erin Austin: Aaron. I'm so happy to have you here today. Lots for us to talk about. But before we get started, can you introduce yourself

Betsy Jordyn: to the audience? Sure. My name is Betsy Jordan. I am a business mentor and a brand messaging and positioning me strategist for remarkable consultants and coaches and their unique strengths and experiences and passions.

Erin Austin: Very nice, very nice. So who is your typical client and how did you come, come upon them? Did they choose you or did you choose them?

Betsy Jordyn: So my ideal client is usually somebody who's either like one or two phases in their career. They're either at a corporate kind of job and they're like, okay, I've had enough.

Betsy Jordyn: I've hit the top. I wonder what's what? What is this for? I wanna have control over my career in my life, and I wanna have more significance, and I'm not sure how to navigate that. So that's like one set of my clients and they know they wanna start a business that relates to like their knowledge and their expertise.

Betsy Jordyn: Like a consultant, coach, speaker kind of person. Mm-hmm. Or it's somebody who they built. The wrong business and they, it's just, it's not the business that they are loving and it's not the right one. I work with them and we use basically the same processes for both of them. And how do they, I think they find me because of my content, which is how you and I got connected.

Betsy Jordyn: Very,

Erin Austin: very nice. So I've heard, you reminded me of this term boomer preneur, but maybe that doesn't apply. Like we're people who have had this whole career and then they. And I guess that's kind of generational as well, but just they've had this whole career and now they wanna like, Do this consulting or things like that?

Erin Austin: Is that a term that, am I the only one who uses that term?

Betsy Jordyn: I don't, I don't know if I would use that one. I use more like corporate refugee or somebody who's like a mid-career professional. Like there's other people like Marie Folio who's out there and you know, she helps for, you know, people who there. I think there's a huge difference between somebody who's an entrepreneur and that's their first career.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Versus what it takes for somebody who's mid-career, who's got, you know, a certain amount of perk status in their job, in their. Corner office, their status. Everybody's expecting so much from them and for them to leave that kind of golden handcuff kind of situation mm-hmm. Into starting a business is completely different.

Betsy Jordyn: And those are the people I really love serving the most. Yeah.

Erin Austin: That, that is a shocker. As well as the kind of, just the way things are staffed has changed. Like when I started my career, everyone had. What was then as secretary, but then became an assistant. And then I remember, this is maybe 10 years ago, I was working with a client and I'm like, well, you know, just have your assistant send it to me.

Erin Austin: He's like, and this was the c e o of this. And he is like, I don't have an assistant. Like, cause everyone just, you know, kind of, and this, you know, an entrepreneur and they just kind of do things differently, you know? Mm-hmm. And, uh, and so to stop having that, You know, support and becoming an entrepreneur, that's gotta be quite the shock to the system.

Erin Austin: Well, that will actually kind of, uh, uh, feed into part of what we're gonna talk about today. I mean, there's many things that we could talk about, but that's corporate to entrepreneur transition. And in particular in the consulting space where we're experts, we're using our brains, uh, you know, where we're going to talk about kind of the difference between, you know, well, we're gonna talk about profitability, I'll let you talk about what the differences are, but really about profitability.

Erin Austin: Because when we're in corporate and we think about, you know, okay, you have revenue, and then you got all these overhead pieces. And, um, you know, rent and payroll and office supplies and you know, vendors and maybe when we are solopreneurs, we. Don't have any of those things. So we think it's all profit, you know?

Erin Austin: Yay. We're the super pro, you know, and we're not really thinking about kind of the, the big picture of making sure this, what we're doing really is profitable. Does it really make sense for us to do this versus going back to the corporate job. And so I'd love for you to kind of. Uh, top start big picture about, you know, what profit is versus things like income and revenue and how that applies and the, the, the problems that you see among your, uh, clients kind of wrapping their heads around

Betsy Jordyn: these things.

Betsy Jordyn: Well, um, would it be okay if I backed up and talked about like money mindset shifts? Yeah. And then get into the profit. Yes. Okay. So one of the biggest things I think when people are leaving a corporate job and starting a business or any sort of job and starting a business is understanding that your relationship to money has changed.

Betsy Jordyn: So when you're in a job, you're in a compensation model. So though what that means is I do work. And then I get paid for, like I get, I don't even have to get paid for it. I get paid. Mm-hmm. And I get compensated for the work that I do. And so it's a compensation model. And I think a lot of times when people leave that compensation model and they go into a business, they don't make that shift of saying, wait a minute, I have to create a business.

Betsy Jordyn: And business is different. So business is about, I invest money first and then I get a return. And so that's like the first big shift is I have to understand that I have to, like, we know if, if any one of my clients were advising their clients or going to a company, they would say, well, you have to spend money to make money.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. But when they leave and they start their own business, they think, well, I don't need to spend money. You know, I could just like, you know, just go out there and find clients. And I'm like, well, if you're gonna just go out there and find clients, you're actually recreating your job. In a business, and you're gonna wind up in that trading time for money trap because that's what you know.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And that's what other people are. So we think, oh, okay, well I'm gonna go look for other busier consultants and take their carryover work, or I'm gonna sign up for this coaching form and they're gonna bring clients to me. You're gonna be, you're still in a compensation model, so there's no profit potential in a compensation model.

Betsy Jordyn: Because you don't have a business, you have to think about money completely different when you are starting a business. That's why it's important that you invest properly in a really great website. You get clear in your messaging, you figure out who you're going after, and then you figure out like what are different ways that you're going to provide products and services that are scalable?

Betsy Jordyn: And so that's like that first mindset is you have to go first. You know? And it's interesting with, um, expert knowledge workers as if I, like, I always use, use the example of the hotdog cart. Because I think I did research one time around how much does it cost to like set up a cop dog cart, and it was like something like $50,000 you have to have like to invest to buy a hotdog cart, get it up and running, you know, find your corner and all of that.

Betsy Jordyn: People would get that like, okay, I can, I have to spend money on my hotdog cart. I have to spend money on hotdogs. I have to spend money on condiments in order to get sales. But when you're dealing with knowledge, it's like, well, I don't need to do that because I've been doing this for a long time. So it's the mindset.

Betsy Jordyn: Is the first thing before we could even talk about the difference between profitability, trading, time for money, and all that kind of stuff. Thank you

Erin Austin: for that. Yes. Well, that, that's the danger of me trying to set up something without being the expert. So thank you for, for, for that. That is so important. I, I, myself have been a victim of exactly what you talked about and, uh, and, and not that, I mean, some lawyers never leave that.

Erin Austin: Money, mindset. Um, but uh, but it is something that I see again and again and uh, and you know, and on the one hand, the ability to go straight from our corporate job to quickly, you know, creating income, you know, so we can keep paying the mortgage and things is one of the benefits of it, but also one of the traps of it, because you can get stuck there, right?

Betsy Jordyn: Well, you, you can't scale. Mm-hmm. And it's not sustainable. Mm-hmm. You know, like when you're in a, when you're in a job and you're going the job search pro process, you only have to find one job and you're kind of done. Mm-hmm. You know, nobody wants to be perennially out of work constantly on that hustle.

Betsy Jordyn: For, you know, looking for the next gig and the next gig and the next gig. That's exhausting. Mm-hmm. And at some point, some of it's gonna say, well, you know, forget it, I'm just gonna go leave and get a corporate job because it's a lot easier. Because it is a lot easier. And the other thing that you do when you cr recreate that kind of role, like, I hate subcontracting.

Betsy Jordyn: It's like, it makes me crazy because if you give control over how you set up work to somebody else, like you really don't have a business and you're not even really being a strategic partner or whoever you're helping. Mm-hmm. You're. You, you do all of this where you're actually making less money. It may feel like you're making more money, but you're not, or you think you have more freedom.

Betsy Jordyn: You're working the same amount of hours without any colleagues. You know, really that are your colleagues. Mm-hmm. Without any pa, without any career opportunities. Mm-hmm. You know, and without all of the other stuff. So it's like, it's the worst of all worlds. Yeah. From my, my perspective. Yeah. Other people might like it.

Betsy Jordyn: If you like it, cool. Like, I don't judge you, it's awesome. But from my standpoint, I didn't leave my corporate job. I ha was a, I was a senior leader at Walt Disney World. I had a great career. You know, I had many opportunities I could take in my career anywhere If I wanted that, I would've stayed there. But instead I wanted to have control and freedom and all those other things.

Betsy Jordyn: Yeah, there

Erin Austin: is that illusion that will get control and freedom from going out on our own, right. But it, if we really think about, if we don't have some of the things you're gonna talk about in place, that we just have created a job without benefits and without up add upside. So, all right. So let's get to how you help clients make that mindset shift.

Betsy Jordyn: Um, well, the first things first is we really talk about like, what kind of business you really wanna start, you know, and get clear that you're starting a business, you know? So it's like, to me, the way I help my clients is it's more of an action learning kind of thing. It's not like I just sit there and say, all right, well your mindset's gonna shift.

Betsy Jordyn: It's like, your mindset's gonna shift as we do certain things. Mm-hmm. You know, as we clarify who your ideal client is. You know, that's a starting point because then you're gonna get clear of like, oh, okay, I have a business that's supporting somebody specific rather than I, you know, here's my expertise.

Betsy Jordyn: Like, that's where the flip is, is that, you know, when you're looking for a job like the spotlight, it is on you and all of your expertise when you build a business, the spotlight's on your ideal client, kind of for you when you were making this shift is you are a corporate person who is. You know, you had all this legal IP advice, but you decided I wanna help women experts, and there's a bigger why.

Betsy Jordyn: So you get really clear on that and that starts creating that shift, you know? And then I work with my clients through like, no, how they're gonna stand out in the marketplace and then we work on their website. When you have your website, that helps you start thinking about like, okay, I have to really work on.

Betsy Jordyn: You know, marketing system. And I have to start thinking about like bigger picture, like what's my online prop, you know, like platform that's not just like a brochure kind of website. So the mindset changes, like I don't think, I'm not a believer of mindset changing. Like I just sit there in isolation. My mindset changes, and then I could do actions.

Betsy Jordyn: I believe that as you do actions with intentionality, like knowing like here's my mindset gap, like if I have a money issue, we're gonna have an actual tangible thing. Like, okay, let's talk about your website. You know, and how do you wanna set it up and what's the money you're gonna leave on the table?

Betsy Jordyn: And we work on it from that standpoint. So there's like direct things, there's like the action learning kind of things. And then there's like advice I might give along the way. Like number one, um, I don't believe that you, like, there's many ways that you could set up your business, but I think you need to have business money separate and personal money, you know, like those, like a wall between the two so that you start thinking about the profitability of your business and thinking about like, I'm gonna get a salary out of it.

Betsy Jordyn: You know, and that's gonna go over here, but sometimes people kinda like lump it all together. Yes. Like I have, um, I have a client who sent me a, a spreadsheet from a different form that she was working on, on how to figure out how much to charge different than weight that I would set it up. Mm-hmm. And they included like, here's all my personal expenses and here's all my other things and this is how much money I have to make.

Betsy Jordyn: I'm like, no, your personal expenses are over there. Mm-hmm. Your business, you, you have to put a wall, like there's a wall between the two. Mm-hmm. So that you can look at your business profitability separately from here's my income.

Erin Austin: Well, let's stick into that cuz I do think people get really hung up on that.

Erin Austin: And, uh, it certainly, it, it was for first decade of my business, freelancing business. Um, I definitely was the, everything that I collected from my clients was errands and that's how I paid the mortgage and sent the kid to school and that was it. And there wasn't, This business in the middle with me getting payroll.

Erin Austin: So tell me, tell us about one, like, well, well, how do you work with your clients to, do you help them set up a separate entity or do you just do it with the books without having a separate entity? Like how do you like to work with them to to, to make that.

Betsy Jordyn: So, um, you're the person, like someone like you who's like more of a legal person or an accountant person, I would say, like that's outside of my wheelhouse.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Like, that's not like I'm more of the principles and the mindset. Mm-hmm. And it's like I could tell you, like, I could say like, well based on my experience of doing this for 15 years or so, like, here's what I know and here's what my accountant taught me, but then here's how I've learned how to think about my business differently.

Betsy Jordyn: Like there's no problem, I don't think, like to borrow from your business to go over here, but you still have to think about your business separately. Mm-hmm. So it's like when you're thinking about the profit equation, it's not really like I try to help my clients even like go to like from your business revenue kind of perspective, like how you right size your lead generation goals and how you do all of that.

Betsy Jordyn: So the um, You know, so the, the profit equation's, not all that confusing, you know, in some ways is you have revenue minus expenses equals profit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, so you have to be looking at your expenses, but you have to look at your expenses differently from just expenses to investments. Like, so you gotta think about like, everything has to be in a ROI kind of mindset.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Like everything that you do is about an ROI for your business. So you're investing in, let let's, let's start over

Erin Austin: with this one. Cause I don't think. That was the right question for you. So let's, let's look at it from a, um, we're talking about, you know, me kind of conflating the two. Um, so let's go to, so you know, when you have someone like an Erin who just has their money come in and is not thinking about whether or not it's profitable, whether or not actually have a profitable business, do my offerings make sense?

Erin Austin: Is the way on building make sense? Um, would it be just, would I be better off just going back in house? Like what I, what are the steps to, to helping them think through

Betsy Jordyn: that? First off, I would never suggest if somebody really feels like they, their, their next step in their big calling is to be a business owner.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. I would never say you need to, you need to burn those bridges. You know, like the only way that you're gonna be successful over the long term is to be committed to being successful. Well over the long term. Mm-hmm. And you're never gonna figure it out right at the gate. So the first thing I would say to you is like, of course you approach it that way, no harm, no foul.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. You know, and, and the secret to your long term success is like you try some things out and you kind of pivot and you go, so if you're sort of like, I, it's not a problem, you know, if you're, depending on how you set things up. To, if you wanna have it mixed, like some people like to have it mixed and that is a way to do it, I believe, in the firewall.

Betsy Jordyn: But the key would be is like I would be asking you like, how are you investing in your business and how, and what kind of return are you looking at? And there's other ways that you would price your services. Like if you're not making enough money, From your services, like, well, we need to look at your products and services and how you're framing 'em up.

Betsy Jordyn: Like, are you setting up? Because there's a way, like a lot of coaches do this is they set up their business in this hourly type of thing. Mm-hmm. You know, where it's like, okay, well I have my one hour package, that's a couple hundred dollars. I have my eight package, one where it breaks it down $150 a coaching session, you know, and that kind of thing.

Betsy Jordyn: Like, well, you're never gonna scale that one. Right. And that's not interesting. I would probably say, all right, Aaron, let's talk about. Let's talk about your ideal client and let's talk about what the problem that you're solving. Let's talk about how, who they're turning to, to solve those problems and where the gaps are.

Betsy Jordyn: And let's frame up a very interesting signature program. Mm-hmm. That would have a variety of different elements that would be of more value. So it's like, we wanna look at it from that angle and we wanna look at like, well, what are your profit goals? So if you wanna make, let's say, uh, um, You know, a hundred thousand dollars a year and you're, and you think your average price per client is X and it's like, okay, so I need to create like a $5,000 program.

Betsy Jordyn: It's like, well, what would we need to include to make this a $5,000 program? It could include X number of coaching sessions. It can include a membership forum. It could include an online, Course it can include on-call access, which by the way is high value that people undervalue. Mm-hmm. And people don't do this on-call trusted advisor kind of thing, because they're worried that people are gonna take advantage of you and they're not.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But it's high value. Like I could call you when I need to, you know, maybe you include like office hours or maybe you include live retreats, and all of that is $5,000. So, for example, I worked with a girl named Rachel. She's a dating coach. She was initially starting off with like, I'm gonna kind of do this, and it's like, no, let's create your program.

Betsy Jordyn: You know, and her program includes an upfront assessment, you know, and a certain kickoff in-depth coaching session around X, Y, and Z. Then she has like X number of coaching calls. Then she has like the dating profile review included in the program, and then of course, adding in those special bonuses. And it's all about how you frame it, and that's a scalable offer.

Betsy Jordyn: That's interesting. Now people are gonna be like, oh, okay, I'm willing to pay more because of the return.

Erin Austin: Okay. Got it. And so when you use the term investments, like what, what does that mean specifically? I mean, in coaching and, you know, re other types of human resources. Like what,

Betsy Jordyn: what does that mean?

Betsy Jordyn: Investment. I think everything that you do for your business, you need to think about it as so, so you could look at the profit equation and say there's revenue minus expenses equals profit. Mm-hmm. But when I think when you're a business owner, there's some things that are just like expenses you might say.

Betsy Jordyn: It's like, okay, like for example, I use Cajabi as my platform. And I could look at it as a straight cost, or I think about like, well, what does Cajabi offer that allows me to scale? So Cajabi is like a all-in-one kind of platform. So I get my website, I have my email marketing, I have my landing pages, I have my courses, and all of this is in one place, right?

Betsy Jordyn: So if I'm spending like 150 bucks a month on Cajabi, I'm spending less if I were gonna do all of those things separately. But I'm also spending less time because everything's all in one place. But then I have all my tools that are there, like if I can master, like getting into Cajabi allowed me to go from just mentoring people to creating websites.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And to working on pipelines and helping people with courses because I learned how to do this myself. So every time I get a bill from Kajabi, every, every time I see it, every month, I feel happy. Like, yes. You know, because I know I'm investing. Mm-hmm. Or you might invest in a virtual assistant, you know, and you think about the money that you're, so, you think about the time you might spend.

Betsy Jordyn: So here's an example with a virtual assistant. So I wound up, um, signing up for, um, Working with different organizations and if you think about like how much they might charge so you can get some VAs from other parts of the world for like $9 an hour, you can, I don't know what the US prices are. Mm-hmm.

Betsy Jordyn: Or so just do the math is, let's say you're gonna work on a P D F, like in Canva or something, it might take you 10 hours, but if you think about it from your salary standpoint and how much you're worth per hour, you know, this could be like a $10,000 P D F. If you charge, if you have a va, it's like way less.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. So it's like thinking about money differently. Everything. When you're a business owner, you have to think about money differently and your relationship with money is different and you have to spend the money first in order to get the return. Got it. Everything that you do, it's so if you're thinking like, oh my gosh, I don't have a lot of money.

Betsy Jordyn: Like when I first started my business, I was going through a horrible divorce. I lost all my money, like all of it. I had $200 in the bank and my grandmother had passed not that long ago, like not long be around that same time, and she left me, I don't remember exactly how much, but it was like, It was enough to cover my initial business expenses.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. I could have taken that money and lived for like a c, you know, like six months, you know, and I could have lived off of that, or I took that money and I paid for mentoring so I could learn the skills I needed to learn as a business owner. Mm-hmm. I invested in a website and you'd dep appreciate this, and I invested in content creation from the get go.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. So I invested in. Getting website, um, getting articles, and I invested in learning how to create videos. And from that standpoint, I grew my business at that point, literally from zero. I mean, I guess you could say 200 s, not zero, but let's just say zero to 300,000 in the first 18 months. Mm-hmm. And it's like my mindset changed, like when I was standing in front of my first opportunity I had right after I launched my website.

Betsy Jordyn: I had a client who really wanted to work with me. Like they handed me a proposal and say, meter beat this, this job's yours. And it's like, you know what? I, I saw myself differently. I took a step back and I said, you know, and again, I was not making, I was like really in the hole, and I was a single parent at the time.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And I looked at their proposal, I'm like, Nope, this is not what's in the best interest of the client. I gave a different proposal. It was. I had to think like five times more than what the competitor did. And the clients were freaking out. They're like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have to like break the, to work with Betsy.

Betsy Jordyn: And I'm like, mm-hmm. And something came over me and I, this is a phrase I use all the time. Like, no, that other person, that is an expense. It's an expense that you're gonna have. I'm not an expense to be managed. I'm an investment that will deliver a return. Mm-hmm. And they were like, whoa. You know? And then they signed immediately on the spot.

Betsy Jordyn: So it's about the mindset around like, I'm an investment. And so I have to invest in myself. I'm the product, I'm the, I'm the product, I'm the service. I have to invest in myself and then I'll get a return. That's the key is, and then you're gonna think about things more creatively. I don't know if that answered your question or not.

Betsy Jordyn: Well, it did that,

Erin Austin: more than that. It was great. I mean, cuz I, I, that is so interesting to me cuz I like to, um, you know, talk about things like, uh, law. You know, investing in lawyers or, you know, and they're thought of as expenses. Like, okay, this is like a. You know, something I have to do. I don't wanna do it, but I gotta do it.

Erin Austin: And you know, it's risk avoidance and versus like, if you use lawyers strategically, you know, to help you, um, you know, put pieces in place that build that foundation so that you can grow. They, it is an investment, you know, investing in contracts, investing in content. Um, and I have noticed in. Like proposals, like if you see something on site online and they'll have their prices and they'll say investment as opposed to price or cost.

Erin Austin: And I like that because it really is just thinking about it from, okay, this is something that will have a return on investment if I do my job right. You do your job right, it's a return on this and it will help your business grow. So I like that you used. Just the term investment instead of expenses.

Erin Austin: Things that we could think of that way, but I think it's the wrong way to think about it. I really, I really like that explanation. That that was fantastic. Thank you.

Betsy Jordyn: Well, speaking of, of attorneys though, like you're an unusual attorney, you know, who's also a coach and so you, you are a strategic partner.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. You know, the problem that you might have is that your field on the whole is very much by the hour and very much commodity. Mm-hmm. And, and it's like you get into the legal situation and they don't have like a big picture plan. Mm-hmm. So the same things that I would recommend to my clients who are coaches is like, you need to have like some sort of defined.

Betsy Jordyn: Value that you're gonna create for a client at the end. Like, so if I were gonna work with you in, maybe in a previous iteration, it's like, okay, I wanna protect my intellectual property. You know, it might be you would charge me $500 an hour, you know, boom, boom, boom. Now my money's up in three hours. Right?

Betsy Jordyn: Or you would say, I'm gonna help you create a body of work that is monetizable, and let's say your package is $10,000, but it's capped. Mm-hmm. And it's a value, and I'm gonna create a different kind of outcome. Now, I could think about it differently, but most lawyers don't operate like as strategic partners.

Betsy Jordyn: Yeah. They set themselves up because the legal field, that's why burnout is so bad. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like by the hour, by the hour, and then you get, you know, the client gets to the end. Like, I never. Ever, ever charged by the hour? Yeah. Maybe very rarely for like a one-off, you know, like, yes. If somebody needs like a one-off kind of thing, it's like, okay, before I sign up for this whole big program with you, like, can I just do like a 90 minute session?

Betsy Jordyn: It's like, okay, fine. Yes. Yeah, I'll do that. But never charged by the hour. Ever. Yeah. Ever. Because if you are a, if you are by the hour, first off, I've never, I haven't been an hourly worker since I was, I don't know. Like, when did I get my first job? I was 21. Like, when was the last time I was an hourly worker?

Betsy Jordyn: Right. You know, like, I'm not gonna go back and be an hourly worker ever. But when you're talking about, you know, your mindset, it's like your mindset influences the clients. Like, I'm an investment and therefore I'm gonna encourage you to be an investment. And the thing that gets gives clients happiness is like, oh, you're promising a, a transformation.

Betsy Jordyn: You know, that's different than I'm going to do X, Y, and Z and methodology. Methodology. Mm-hmm.

Erin Austin: So you help people think about the way that they're pricing they're offering in terms of outcome versus inputs. Like what

Betsy Jordyn: I help. I help them think about the value that they create so they can own their worth and they can price properly.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Based on the transformation that they're gonna create for the clients. That's meaningful to the clients. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And then they invest themselves in themselves properly in order to deliver on that. Yeah.

Erin Austin: Yeah. My, I have a good story about the hourly. So, you know, I, I worked with, um, you know, IP based businesses for many, many years.

Erin Austin: And, um, one of my big clients is in the market research phase. And, uh, and then someone had gone over to another market research place and they're like, oh, you know, I know that you're gonna, I've worked with other lawyers, I have to explain everything to 'em, takes 'em forever to figure it out. I know that you know exactly how to do this well, I did.

Erin Austin: And it took me like no time to, like, I. I can do this in my sleep. I can fix your problem completely in an hour. And I was charging by the hour, you know, and I fixed the problem immediately because I'd been doing what they needed for 10 years and like, so my reward for that was, uh, you know, Getting almost nothing.

Erin Austin: So you definitely, yes. So then,

Betsy Jordyn: so if you were a more junior person, it would take you in 20 hours and you would've made more money. Right. So you're penalizing yourself rather than I, if you can get it done an hour. Right. You know, I just, I just did an interview with an executive on, on my podcast. Um, I knew he was saying like a lot of co, like a lot of consultants are looking at just the, the like, here's the economic value.

Betsy Jordyn: And he is like, you gotta understand the return on time. Yeah. You know, so in some ways is like, well I can take five hours to do this and it's gonna cost a less price, or I'm gonna, I'll get it done in an hour. And you could charge the premium for the speed,

Erin Austin: right? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, it, it is a tough one.

Erin Austin: And, uh, I mean, you work with men and women, but uh, uh, for, for many women have trouble feeling like they're overcharging for things like they know, like, you know, Francis, this, like, I know that I could get that done, like, and be done by, you know, time for lunch and how can I charge for that? And, uh, but at the end of the day, what, what is the value to the client is really what matters there.

Erin Austin: So,

Betsy Jordyn: I think men and women both struggle with, like, especially if you're a knowledge worker, you know, and you're getting paid for your expertise, it's very hard to put a price tag on. Mm-hmm. I see. Men and women equally struggle with that whole thing. Mm-hmm. But I think what women struggle with more is if somebody doesn't have money, Like, then they feel bad for 'em, where men don't care that much.

Betsy Jordyn: Like women are like, oh, okay, well I, I guess I'll discount it because it's like, I like you and I wanna help you, or mm-hmm. Yeah. Let me do this for you for free. Like, we're much more codependent mm-hmm. From that standpoint. And men are really good at like, Well, like, this is part of my paid program, you know?

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And, and men are more aggressive in asking for the sale, you know, more than, than women could be. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Erin Austin: Oh, interesting. So do you have them, do you, do you group coaching or are they all individual? Um, one-on-one. I

Betsy Jordyn: just launched a group coaching experience. So I take people like through that whole transition, you know, from like, I have an idea, I wanna launch it, I wanna, I wanna move into this thought leadership space.

Betsy Jordyn: So I do, there's some stuff that just requires one-on-one kind of stuff. So I do a lot of um, v i P days, like brand messaging kind of stuff, wording, copywriting and all that kind of stuff. Like that's more like one-on-one. Mm-hmm. And it's not really something that lends itself to a group, but I've been very passionate about bringing groups together.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Because of the power of being with other people who are in the same place that you are, the learning, and it's been really powerful. So I started this Purpose to Profits Academy, is what I call it. And the promise here is like, we're gonna get into really actionable kind of training to help you develop all the skillsets that you're gonna need over time.

Betsy Jordyn: Because as. A, uh, a consulting, a coaching business owner, you have to learn the skills. You didn't learn it, you know? Mm-hmm. If you were in corporate and how do you learn these skills? How do you learn copywriting? How do you learn how to write a headline? Mm-hmm. Or a sales page, or how do you price yourself or how do you create a proposal?

Betsy Jordyn: All those things. And it's been really powerful. I just launched it a few weeks ago. And it's already been amazing. Like the clients are able to bring the specific things to the table that they wouldn't, they have questions on. And it's like, it's not just, you know, don't just trust my opinion, like hear all the other support and it's like I just, the transformations that are really cool.

Betsy Jordyn: I love it. Does, is that open enrollment

Erin Austin: or do you have like a, a cohort that goes together at the same time?

Betsy Jordyn: No, it's an open enrollment. Okay. I decided it, this was like a passion project I just launched. It's, it's only like 2 97 a month. Mm-hmm. And it's like weekly coaching. Like right now the price is gonna be at that point.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. I wanted to keep the price low because I wanna have like purpose-driven consultants and coaches together. And so I deliberately kept the price low and really building those actionable skills. So we have like weekly masterclass where it's like we have a content and then we have hot seats and conversations.

Betsy Jordyn: More content. Mm-hmm. It's pretty cool.

Erin Austin: So people self-select in as purpose driven, like what if you just wanna make money? Is that, is that an opt place for you? Or,

Betsy Jordyn: um, I'm not really the best fit because mm-hmm. Like, my belief is that the most sustainable, most scalable, most profitable business is the one that's aligned to who you are.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And your, and your passions. Like it's, mm-hmm. It's, especially if you're a mid-career person, like what's the point? If you just wanna make money, go somewhere else. Like, I'm not your girl. Mm-hmm. If you wanna make money doing what you love, I'm your girl, but I don't really wanna help. I don't, I, I feel like it's unethical in the consulting coaching space, to be honest.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Like mm-hmm. I mean, not to be like, I'm not trying to be judgy on other people, like if that's the way they wanna do it. Mm-hmm. But if I'm going to help, like when you think about the sacred role of a consultant or coach, like we help ignite transformation in either organizations or people. So let's say I'm a consultant and I go into an organization that might be struggling.

Betsy Jordyn: If I'm just in it for the paycheck, I'm not gonna take all of the issues seriously that. Employees and customers are gonna tell me, and I'm not, I'm not doing justice. Like you can't invite people to focus groups and ask them to bear their souls and not take what they're telling you with, you know, with reverence it would be saying, do you wanna go to a doctor who's just in it for money without caring about the patient?

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. You know, do you wanna hire a coach who just wants to get famous, or do you wanna have a coach who cares about helping you? To me, the purpose-driven is an alignment with the client-centric, like a purpose-driven. Mm-hmm. Client-centric service, they're all the same. You cannot have a purpose-driven business if you don't have somebody that you actually care about helping.

Betsy Jordyn: Like when I talk to you on my podcast mm-hmm. About. Intellectual property, you are right away. Like, I wanna help people who are experts and I wanna help women because I believe that women are all about, you know, like, like wealth in the hand of women, hands of women is going to make a difference in society.

Betsy Jordyn: Yes. And so of course I would rather like, if I have all these options, like why would I go to someone who just like, oh, I'm a really smart. You know, intellectual property attorney, you know, please, here's my $500 an hour rate. Or do I wanna have someone that's like, wow, you really care about me, you care about my intellectual property, you care about me having wealth so that I could give back to the world.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And, and, and even planting the seed around how am I gonna give back to the world? You know what that, why would I ever wanna go to anyone else? Yeah. I

Erin Austin: agree that, and that's nice. Cause, and they'll ha be coming at it from that point of view as a group program, that they're all on the same page about that and making sure that they're, they're helping people.

Erin Austin: I love that. So is there anything new in 2023 that you're seeing this different, you've been doing this, I think you said 15 years, like what's, what's on the horizon in who's coming outta corporate now and how is it different from the people who are coming outta corporate pre pandemic, maybe.

Betsy Jordyn: Um, they're actually, those are two different questions that are kind of related.

Betsy Jordyn: Um, For people who are coming, coming outta corporate right now, I think it's just we're seeing the residuals of the whole pandemic, post pandemic and people wanting more balance in their lives and, um, organizations. I, I like, I've seen a difference in the past. Like I would say there was a shift in 2008 and there's like a shift now, like before 2008.

Betsy Jordyn: You know, it seemed like, like customers, you had like this many customers and this many employees in it kind of match. Mm-hmm. You know, 2008 with a recession's, like okay, customers dropped off, then they dropped employees, and then when customers started coming back, they kept employees like this. Mm-hmm.

Betsy Jordyn: And so now employees were working like 2, 3, 4 jobs. Mm-hmm. You know, in the past. And there was no time to think and all of that. And then I think with the pandemic, it accelerated that whole thing where like the workloads are crazy, but then it's like companies are navigating the virtual workforce versus the live workforce.

Betsy Jordyn: And I think that there's, there's a shift from that standpoint. So I think that people are coming out. Are a little bit like kind of battle fatigued. They're a tight, like in 2020, like a lot of people are really energetic. Like, okay, I'm gonna take charge of this. I'm gonna invest in my website, all of this Right now, people have more economic uncertainty, there's more fear, and I think there's just a collective soul exhaustion.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. That's at a different level now. Like, so I think that from that standpoint, as it relates to business development, My favorite obsession. I'm obsessed with ai. I'm obsessed with chat. G P T I just discovered it yesterday, like

Erin Austin: literally yesterday.

Betsy Jordyn: Like I've made it my, you know, my little assistant, you know, like, I, like, my husband walks by and he's laughing.

Betsy Jordyn: He is like, you know, he, he, he's like watching me, like with chat G P T, and it's like, no, that's not what I want. I want this, you know, and I'm learning how to make ch chappy t chat, G B T B, my junior copywriter, oh, and my junior content creator, like talking about ip. That's, that's actually an issue for you.

Betsy Jordyn: You know, it's like if people are creating a body of work, like how do you differentiate between what chat cheap PTs creating versus what you're creating? But it's fascinating. I could say, I could write something, I'm like, Hey, could you rewrite this in the voice of Betsy Jordan? And it, it like does my voice, I'm like, This is weird.

Betsy Jordyn: Like how do you know my voice? So you

Erin Austin: fed it like your past writings, and then it kind of goes, okay, this is the way she generally

Betsy Jordyn: write. How does it. It knows my writings. I have no, I did something, I played around with it once. It was like I took a statement, like I took something I was working on. Mm-hmm.

Betsy Jordyn: And I, and I'm like, write this. I'm like, can you rewrite this in The Voice of Betsy Jordan? And then I did that, and then it's like, you and I both know Carol Cox. So I'm like, can you rewrite it in The voice of Carol Cox? So speaking your brand and then rewrote it in Carol's language. And I was like, oh, that's so weird.

Betsy Jordyn: I was like, little shifts between the two of us. I'm like, this is fascinating. You know, it's very fascinating. Even little things like, Hey, can you give me a script on how to confront my adult daughter who's living with me now and, and like, and how to ask her to help me know, clean up more. And it's like, oh, well, and then it would just gimme a little script.

Betsy Jordyn: I'm like, ah, this is pretty good, you know? Mm-hmm. So there's gonna be, I think that that's gonna be a trend that we need to be paying attention to. I think that's gonna really shake up the marketing world and the content creation world in a very big way. Yeah.

Erin Austin: Yeah, it is. I mean, the reason it even came across my, uh, desk, so to speak, because I am, you know, I'm like, To me, AI was just way outside of, I'm like, ah, I can't, after I was doing a, a legal M C L E, you know, training about the impact of ai, like the legal implications of ai, and they're describing all the things it could do, I'm like, it could do that.

Erin Austin: It could do that. So immediately had to go on like, yeah. And uh, and so now I'm obsessed too. I spent like the afternoon, like on chat, G D V P. G P t.

Betsy Jordyn: Oh my God. I asked Zach chat, g b t before our interview. I'm like, what are some good questions I could ask Aaron on my podcast. And it's like, you know, Aaron Austin is a, is a, an attorney and a business strategist who does X, Y, and Z.

Betsy Jordyn: And, and so he gave me a bunch of ideas like, you know, what inspired you to become an an intellectual property attorney? Have you always worked for yourself or did work for a firm? You know, what is intellectual property? You know, how do, what's the best way? It had all kinds of questions. Like I didn't necessarily ask you those questions.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. But it's like, that was an interesting starting point.

Erin Austin: Yeah. Well that is, I mean, you know, one of the things that came out during this training is what, because lots of law firms have already started using it, and they. Before we even kind of really heard about it, cuz they use it for document production and, you know, doing due diligence and all this stuff and what, what it will be is like, you know, will it replace lawyers?

Erin Austin: It's like, well no, but lawyers who don't use it will be at a massive disadvantage. And that it may even be that it could be, you know, malpractice not to use it. Because what if you miss something, if you've got a thousand documents to look at and you use people instead of AI and you miss something, it's at malpractice.

Erin Austin: So, and I imagine. In other industries, you know, that, uh, you, because you can be more efficient and maybe, uh, you know, perform more quickly, more accurately, maybe charge less, um, that if you're not using it, that it will be a disadvantage. It will be something that, uh, you know, it's like someone not having a website if you're not using ai, you know?

Betsy Jordyn: So, yeah, I think that that's a, I think that's an interesting, because there's like two flip sides. Like you can't really replace the expertise, but I worry that it's gonna make us dumb. Right, because, because I don't have to sit there. Like I didn't have to spend time, like, you know, I did, I spent a lot of time thinking about like our interview.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And what I wanted to talk about. So, I mean, obviously I approached you in the beginning to say, I want you on the show for a particular reason. But you know, it like the creative process of trying to figure like, okay, what is it that I wanna say? So there is a risk factor, but that's a big thing. You know, that's coming up.

Betsy Jordyn: It does there, but this goes to your, the, the initial point of this particular podcast is all around like, thinking about profit and how to, how to think about profit from a scale standpoint is it does create more efficiencies. Mm-hmm. So that allows you to scale and if you don't have money to invest in assistance or if you are using assistance, it allows you to do that.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Erin Austin: I like that. Well, you did touch on like the AI. And IP and the conflicts there. But when you're working with your clients, and I know, you know, developing thought leadership and content is part of what you help them do. Like, do explicit questions about intellectual property come up? Like what are they thinking about building IP assets?

Erin Austin: Are they thinking about possibly that journey from hourly to exit? What, what are what, what's happening around those issues?

Betsy Jordyn: So when I, like, I look at everything like in a five step, like I have a, like you, you and I are process people. Mm-hmm. You know, like, so to me there's like five phases of your business.

Betsy Jordyn: Like first it's like you gotta start the right business, then you gotta figure out like your brand messaging position and your website and getting your website situated. And then you need to be in some sort of process where you know how to convert clients. And then the ultimate place is that thought leadership.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. Because that is where you scale and there's no other way to scale without content. You know, I don't believe there's no way that you're gonna be a premium brand position. You can't raise your fees because without content you're not gonna look like that expert. Mm-hmm. You're not gonna be, if without content, you can't really show up on social media.

Betsy Jordyn: You can't really stand out. So I have to l, I have some clients who are naturally inclined in that way, but most of my clients are a little bit afraid of intellectual property. Like they're cuz of the vulnerability, you know? Mm-hmm. Like the, like the whole, this is where the whole transition from corporate to this kind of stuff.

Betsy Jordyn: It's like, well, I put my ideas out there. Like, I remember the first time I was creating videos, it was like, I, I. I was overwhelmed. Like my first video guy, I'll never forget this whole thing I went to, I went to his place and um, I wound up like staying with him and his wife, and he's like, before I left, he's like, okay, you're gonna be doing scripts.

Betsy Jordyn: You know you're gonna be doing scripts to the teleprompter. I'm like, no, no, no, Chad, I don't do that. Like, I'm just gonna be on the F cuff. You know, I'm gonna be on the flight. And he's like, no, no, no, you're gonna do that. I'm like, Okay, fine. So I got there and I wrote some scripts. So I go downstairs and I read my script to him and he records and he is like, Nope, this is terrible.

Betsy Jordyn: Go back up. I'm like, ah, okay. So I go back up and then I write another one. He is like, no, this is still terrible. Go back up. And then I come back down. He is like, okay, this is good. And then like I wrote like seven different scripts. We were hoping like for three videos. Mm-hmm. But once I got three. Videos up.

Betsy Jordyn: I was, I was able to get like seven that day. And like, I learned something at that particular point, like how to quickly manifest like the ideas. But then when I really got my, my, when my website launched, like I was landing clients, like I, I was landing clients from other parts of the world, like people, I never met six figure engagements because of the power of my content.

Betsy Jordyn: Wow. Because I had videos, because I had all of this. So my whole global business is built on content, so, Content is essential, but the questions that I would ask like first, people have to be ready for it. But where the source of your content is, is it's not even just in your intellectual, like your, your formal business experience mm-hmm.

Betsy Jordyn: Is in your personal experience. So we work on like, what's your story and like, what's your big idea? Like I have a client who is a cancer survivor, and um, and at the same time when she had cancer, her dad had cancer and he had passed. And so she's all about, she's a, she's already been a productivity kind of person.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. But this experience like ignited her. It's like, We don't have time to waste with inefficiencies. We need to get our work done fast so we can go live our lives. And so when she works on content, it's not like, okay, let's just talk about productivity. Mm-hmm. It's talk about like whenever we create content, it's like, okay, here's like, you know, like let's say somebody might say like, well, what are five ways that you can maximize?

Betsy Jordyn: You know how the service delivery or something like that. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, you, you hit the felt points and you give, you know, the felt need. You hit the points, but then at the end, it's like, and the reason why this is so important is, and, and just keep reinforcing this big idea. Yes. Mm-hmm. Like for you.

Betsy Jordyn: There's a story behind why wealth in the hands of women is important. Mm-hmm. But if you're saying like, if you're creating content, there's always like that reiteration of like this bigger picture. Like it's not just about creating a body of work, it's about creating wealth so that you can give back to the world, right?

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And keep bringing it back to that point. That's what I, I didn't do when I started my content and now my content is like really clunky. Like I wish I had a control. So with my clients, I always, I call it your controlling idea. Kind of like your thesis of your paper. Mm-hmm. Have clarity on your thesis so that everything that you write about supports that main point.

Erin Austin: Nice. That's very nice. Well, this is a very meta podcast, I like to say. So it is about female founders for female founders of F businesses who are building a business that they can hopefully sell someday. So do you have plans, future plans for your business that may include

Betsy Jordyn: selling? Yeah, my husband keeps talking about this one.

Betsy Jordyn: This is, this is one of those things that I like, like I would love coaching on that one because it's like, it's hard for me to visualize, like, how would I sell? You know, my business when it's so tied to my personality. Mm-hmm. So that would be something like, of course, like who wouldn't want that at some point?

Betsy Jordyn: I don't see myself retiring ever at a point, but the idea of like having that opportunity, but I can't visualize it. So that's where I would refer to someone like you. Like, paint a picture for me. What would that look like? Well, I like

Erin Austin: to say that the things that help you scale your business are the same things that would help you sell your business in the future.

Erin Austin: So things that are decoupling the income from you, Betsy, you know, putting in the work. So developing frameworks, developing courses, you know, having maybe additional coaches on, you know, who could, um, uh, run the business after you, or having something that, if an. Bigger coaching company, Johnny, you know, tiny Robbins came over and said he wanted to, to buy your, your framework to have something that you could sell.

Erin Austin: But those are the same things that you are doing anyway to grow your business today. So, uh, yeah, so. You're laying them found foundations for that already. That's

Betsy Jordyn: it. That's a such an interesting picture. Mm-hmm. Like I think that that would be, that would be an interesting, this thing to see is like more like how do you paint that picture of like, what would it look like?

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. For to sell a personal business. You know, obviously, you know, Franklin Covey did it, you know? Mm-hmm. They don't, they're not alive anymore. I'm sure Marshall Goldsmith's gonna have the same thing. He's got a legacy business. Brene Brown probably has a legacy business. Oh, I'm sure. Uhhuh. But it's like how to see yourself in that same way.

Betsy Jordyn: Yeah.

Erin Austin: Yeah. Well, and then, yeah, you're a parent. So we can look at our businesses as like raising children that are going to be independent from us someday. Like how can they, this kid possibly be independent from us? But if we're raising them correctly and you know, then they will go on and succeed without us.

Erin Austin: So that's, yeah, like the, you know, think of it a little bit that way too. So, Interesting. All right, so couple of final questions. Um, I, something, I mean, you've mentioned your new, uh, group coaching, uh, program that you have launched Evergreen. So where can people find you, uh, and if there is, uh, some freebie or something that you like people to

Betsy Jordyn: sign up for, Cool.

Betsy Jordyn: Um, so my website is www dot Betsy Jordan and Jordan's with an Y, not an a. There's, you'll have Be People. Yes. Thank you. There's a Betsy Jordan with an A out there who gets all my emails, um, dot com. Um, so that's my website so you can find out more of my services. So if you go to that same U R L, but add services.

Betsy Jordyn: So I have my signature coaching program, which is like my brand messaging. That's the one that everybody goes through if they're working with me more extensively. And that's really getting clarity on your, your ideal business model, how you fit into the marketplace, how you stand out in the marketplace.

Betsy Jordyn: And to me, that's the part where I've leaned in where other business mentors like gloss over, you know, like that's the really important foundational thing. But, um, and if you wanna find the academy, you just, betsy jordan.com/academy. Super fun. It's like, this is like my fun play area, you know, like the other part's, like it's hard work, you know, like I mm-hmm.

Betsy Jordyn: I make my clients work cuz it's like a lot of contemplation, like pulling stuff out. The, um, but I got a ton of freebies, so if you go under like free resources, I have like, I, I can't even, I don't remember exactly how many, like I have free templates, tools, I have a script on, you know, how to articulate what you do.

Betsy Jordyn: Um, I have a, a eCourses for free where I collected some of my content on, um, Imposter syndrome, like a lot of people deal with imposter syndrome. So I have the cure for imposter syndrome. It's a little mini course where I have, you know, just I've collected my podcasts and some interviews and stuff like that.

Betsy Jordyn: So that's a starting place there. So there's lots of freebies on my website. You can go to my YouTube channel. There's a ton. I was gonna say, swear word. There's a ton over there. Or my Enough already podcast. That's another passion project. Like my two fun things, like I have, I mean, obviously I still love Mike branding.

Betsy Jordyn: I love branding so much because it's like, you know, bringing on the. You know, what's in the inside of somebody out. Mm-hmm. But it, it is a lot of work. So like my play areas is my podcast The Enough Already Podcast and the Purpose to Profits Academy is like just, you know, more like my play areas. Well,

Erin Austin: since you brought up imposter syndrome, I'm just gonna th ask this quickly.

Erin Austin: So I have this theory that coaches, consultants, experts, like. Look, don't think that they are ready for ip. Like, that's like the big people. Like that's, you know, and, and that to think that I'm ready for IP is maybe an imposter syndrome issue. Am I, is there anything, do I have anything there?

Betsy Jordyn: Oh, for sure.

Betsy Jordyn: Okay. I mean, I think, I think imposter syndrome hits every single time you're hitting like a step change in your career. Mm-hmm. So to me, like imposter syndrome is like, okay, do I have what it takes? Do I have what it takes? Well, that's because you're really dealing with the fear of the unknown. Like, I've never done it before.

Betsy Jordyn: I. And so it's, it's like I, I don't really necessarily know how to do it, but I think like what, I like what you say that is a good cure for the imposter syndrome. Well, first off, you have to normalize it. Mm-hmm. And you have to say like, imposter syndrome is actually like the part that makes you wanna like crawl under bed and like never come out again.

Betsy Jordyn: If you flip it into the light attribute, it's your integrity saying, I don't wanna make a promise that I can't deliver. I don't wanna do some of that. Like, it's not just about the fear of rejection or the vulnerability, but it's also like there's an integrity element. So, you know, from imposter syndrome standpoint is like first off, you have to acknowledge it and you have to appreciate it.

Betsy Jordyn: That it's like, it's just, it's just trying to keep you safe, you know? And it's just trying to be, it's, it's not a bad part of you. Like I'm absolutely not a fan when people would say like, oh, that, you know, all the chatter in your head. It's like, it's a gremlin, you know, you need to eradicate. I'm like, well, that's a part of you.

Betsy Jordyn: And if you eradicate, if you try to like suppress the, the bad part, you're gonna suppress the good part. And the good part is, is I still have a vision for something bigger than where I'm at right now. So if you're worrying about intellectual property that like, there's some part is like you normalize it, you know, and you understand, well, what does it need?

Betsy Jordyn: And it's like, well, maybe it needs someone like you who can help draw out of them. Or someone like me, you know, like we could draw out of you what your intellectual property is invalidate that. This is interesting. Mm-hmm. Like, like that's interesting. And, you know, and the thing is with, with me, with ip, Is, I know I'm doing good IP or is when I'm the learner, like there's a lot of times like I'm not creating ip, I'm channeling ip.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. And, and it's like when I'm channeling the ip, that's the interesting stuff. Mm-hmm. So then it's like, I just did a podcast on decoding the different, the, it was decoding the profit puzzle. You know, the difference between stable profits, sustainable profits, and scalable profits. And they're like, they're different kind of thing.

Betsy Jordyn: And it's like, it hasn't really gotten like huge hits like, cause I think people like hearing more from me about like strengths and how to communicate value. Mm-hmm. But still I have that mindset, but you know, like even though if it didn't perform as well as maybe all the other ones, like I learned something very different.

Betsy Jordyn: Right. That really prepped me for our conversation is Right. I'm very clear on the difference between this stable thing that I never really, I mean the scalable thing. Mm-hmm. Okay. That I never really thought about. Like I was all about the sustainable, like I want predictability, you know, like stable profitability is one, but sustainable.

Betsy Jordyn: Like, I wanna be in this over the long term, but it's like having that new vision. But I, so it's like creating that podcast, it's like, okay, fine. You know, it, it wasn't, you know, it's not my best. It's not gonna be like my seminal one, but I learned something. Yeah. And I think if I were gonna talk to anybody, Who's listening about like the imposter syndrome is, I would go back to what you say is you just gotta, you have stuff in your head, you just have to manifest it.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. In order to make intellectual property. Mm-hmm. Right. But I think that the other thing is, is that you're the first learner. It's interesting for you, it'll be interesting for other people. And if you just go and put stuff out there, like the beauty about intellectual property, especially if you do a blog or a podcast YouTube channel, like there's always another day, right?

Betsy Jordyn: You know? Or it's like, okay, well that one was a bust, or like that one was a hit. You never know what's gonna be a hit, but go with what's interesting, you know? And you'll learn, like if you go. I was just

Erin Austin: gonna say, the fastest way to continue to develop your expertise is to create more content around it, doing research around it, putting it out into the world, getting feedback on it.

Erin Austin: I mean, that not only the perception of your expertise, but the actual increase of your expertise, uh, from, from continuing to create.

Betsy Jordyn: If there's like a book I would recommend is, I would recommend Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, if you wanna get over it. Is big magic makes it seem like, so what, um, Elizabeth Gilbert says is, ideas are energetic forms that are waiting for be waiting to be manifest.

Betsy Jordyn: And they're looking for a human collaborator to make it manifest. And, and it's like, if you don't say yes to the idea, the idea's gonna move on to somebody else. Yeah. And so it's like being, like looking at the ideas. Is like almost like a separate entity that you could do a little dance with, and it's like, then it's fun.

Betsy Jordyn: It's like I'm having a relationship with my ideas. Mm-hmm. It's not like, oh, it's so attached to me, and it's like, oh, okay, this is my ideas. Mm-hmm. It's like, no, the idea is separate from me and I'm having fun with it, and I'm just bringing it to life. Like again, I. The best content is gonna be the one that you channel not necessarily create.

Betsy Jordyn: Mm-hmm. So the more you're in your head, the less interesting it's gonna be for you and for your audience. Mm-hmm.

Erin Austin: Yeah. Agreed. All right. Nice little bonus at the end there. Thank you so much, Betsy.

Betsy Jordyn: Thank you, Erin. It was so much fun being on your show, and I am, I'm so excited about what you do. I just, I'm fascinated by everything that you say and I just, I cannot recommend you enough to anybody who's working on, you know, really monetizing their body of work.

Betsy Jordyn: You have the right heart, the right mind, you've got the whole package. So thank you for having me on the show. Well, thank

Erin Austin: you. This has been a joy.