Erin Austin: Hello ladies. Welcome to this week's Hourly to Exit podcast. I have a wonderful guest for you today, my dear friend Eric Khen. I always get your Gimme your last name,

Erica Holthausen: Erica. I always get Khen. You separate the T and the H and it works.
Erin Austin: Ah, there you go. All right, now I've got it settled. So welcome.

Thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom with the audience. So Erica and I go way back, not with her last name apparently, but we go way back and I am very excited to have her on today. But before we dig into what she does and how she helps, audiences like ours, I'd love Erica for you to introduce yourself to the audience.

Erica Holthausen: Yeah, so Erica Holsen. I am the founder of Catchline Communications and. Live in New London, Connecticut, which I am currently obsessed with this little city. and inspired by you, Erin. I have a little urban garden and I had my first tomato and first tomatillo yesterday. Woo. So it was very exciting. Is this the right time of

Erin Austin: year for tomatoes?

I don't, they're

Erica Holthausen: just Okay. They're just starting. Okay. So like all the rest are green. And then there was one that was like, Actually red, so it didn't last long. I ate it before the critters could.

Erin Austin: Yeah. when I used to have them, they never got into the house. I don't have any this year. Get them warm off the vine is the only way to eat those

Erica Holthausen: things.

yes, yes. Well,

Erin Austin: please more about, what you do and who you help.

Erica Holthausen: Yeah. So I am, effectively, I work with consultants, established consultants and executives who want to. Increase their visibility, build their authority, and learn how to write articles for publications like Harvard Business Review, Inc.

Entrepreneur, all of that kind of thing. So, runs the gamut from figuring out which is the right publication, because there are a lot of opportunities out there and some that we don't think about, like association publications, but that. Might be the perfect place for you. So it goes through picking the right publication, figuring out what is your body of work, what are the things that you're actually going to talk about.

Then to the pitch, actually writing the thing and what the structure of an article is. And then most importantly and often overlooked is what do you do with that article after it's been published? Because, Just getting an article published in Harvard Business Review is not going to have the hoards of humans knocking down your door, so you have to actually use it as an asset.

So how do you do that so that you can accomplish the goals that you set?

Erin Austin: I mean, you said there are a lot of things there that I want to, circle back on, especially the term high visibility publications. And you mentioned big ones like Inc. And Forbes and Harvard Business Review.

but. that may not be the most visibility for you and what you do. So what does that mean, the context of each of our

Erica Holthausen: businesses? Yeah, a hundred percent. and I love that question because everybody thinks of, we talk about getting writing articles for publication, the first things that come to mind are the big business magazines.

But if your folks aren't there, Even if they are, but they're not as there as they might be someplace else, then it's not high visibility for you. So it's who are you actually trying to reach? What are you actually trying to accomplish? Association publications are often overlooked, but those can be such a powerful place to not only get in touch with your exact audience, but also to build a relationship with the folks at the association.

So I've had. Clients who have written for association publications. And then guess what happens? If you're actually providing high quality content for their members month after month after month when they need somebody to do a webinar, to speak at the conference, to do something else like that, you are a natural person for them to turn to.

Erin Austin: Yeah. I mean, I can say personally that for me, Forbes is a flip through magazine. Like I just kinda flip through it and see anything, I don't read it, Yeah. Unlike, my association magazines, which I do actually read 'cause that is very applicable to, what I specifically I want to find out about.

and one of the other things, I mean, I know I've run into this, when I have looked at the submission guidelines for some of the bigger. publications. I mean, they want you to have published somewhere else first, and so I see

Erica Holthausen: sometimes yes, sometimes not as often as you would think if you are coming in as an expert who is publishing that way.

They do want to see writing samples, but those writing samples don't necessarily need to be with a third party publication. So they could be on your blog, they could be on LinkedIn, on Medium, so it's more. For coming in as an expert where you are not being paid for your writing. That's what separates it from the, freelance writers.

you're not being paid for your writing, but you are getting access to their audience. They do wanna see writing samples, but they're less likely to care that much about where else you have been published if you've been published elsewhere. Okay. Some do, but then you kind of ladder up to those.

Erin Austin: Okay. Should, and these are all for publicity and not for pay? Is that Yes. Okay. Okay. Got it.

Erica Holthausen: All right. So for pay is a whole different ball of wax. but these are really to get your ideas in front of the right audience. one of the benefits of writing articles for publication is that the publication has vetted you.

Mm-hmm. So, Unlike writing a book, frankly, which anybody can write, and anybody can have self-published on Amazon, which in so many ways is great because we have access to so much more information. But with writing articles for publication, there's an editorial team that has vetted you and has decided, yes, this is a person who is worth listening to.

And with that sort of stamp of approval that. Adds immediately to, the credibility and to building your authority for what it is that you do. Well, that's an

Erin Austin: interesting way to put it. because there, our access, direct access to our audience is everywhere from podcast to our newsletter to YouTube or, media.

Mm-hmm. These publications, I guess are one of the last kind of gatekeepers.

Erica Holthausen: Yeah. So there's like that little bit of a gatekeeping and gatekeeping add credibility. and part of it is so few people. this is still an area that is expanding.

These publications need this content. Mm-hmm. And a lot of folks don't do it usually out of like a little bit of fear. And is that stepping onto a platform that's like a little. Like, ah, what happens when I get this out there? but by doing that alone, that's a great differentiator because if I have two different consultants and one has a column on ink mm-hmm.

And otherwise they are both equal, I'm probably going with the one who has a column on ink.

Erin Austin: Absolutely. Now, when you mentioned the need for content, ' cause I'm still, I'm a certain age, I was thinking paper, but I imagine like most of their content is online now, so is that correct? Yes.

Okay.

Erica Holthausen: Alright. Yes, and that's, where the opportunity resides. So the opportunity is not to write for entrepreneur, the magazine that comes in your mailbox. Mm-hmm. It's the opportunity to write for entrepreneur.com and part of that is because publications have always, as long as they've been around, they have required advertising revenue to stay in the black, to be able to make ends meet when advertising revenue moved online.

They needed more and more content online. Mm-hmm. Online advertising revenue is driven by traffic, which is driven by search engine optimization, which is driven by content. So they need way more content than they could possibly afford to create if they were paying their staff, writers and freelancers to create it all.

So that huge need. Offers an opportunity for experts, then want to be able to get in touch with those audiences and they have something valuable to share. So it becomes a win for the publication because they're getting the content. They need a win for the experts because now they're on this vetted platform that has a much larger audience than most of us have on our own.

And it's a win for the reader because now I can read articles that come through the lens of a journalist. Which is a little bit different and articles that come from folks who have boots on the ground experience. Right.

Erin Austin: I love that. Okay, so one of the terms you've been using is expert of course, and I know we've had conversations before about thought leadership versus authoritative expert, and tell me what your thoughts are about that thought leadership term.

Erica Holthausen: This is such a difficult question for me because. the term thought leader has been overused to such an extent that it doesn't mean anything anymore. So I have always shied away from that because so many of the folks who are true thought leaders are who were actually either not remembered.

Because the thought leader is the person out front. So one person, Edwin Land, a lot of people don't know who he is. He was the founder of Polaroid. Hmm. Everybody knows Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was not the thought leader. He learned a whole bunch of stuff from Edwin Land mm-hmm. Who is effectively forgotten except in certain little nerdy circles, who have a, Polaroid obsession.

other thought leaders who are true thought leaders, we do not, humans do not do well with change. So a true thought leader is really, Changing the dynamics of things and there's going to be pushback. Mm-hmm. So, Dr. Suzanne Ard is another true thought leader. She is. In the nineties, she published a piece in Nature Magazine.

She was the person who discovered that forests talked to each other through those fungal networks, the Microsol networks, and a lot of acclaim at first, and then the forestry industry. Went bananas and she was blacklisted. she almost, her career was almost destroyed because they didn't want to hear this.

They didn't want this to be true. That would require them to the forestry industry to fundamentally change how it operates. And that's scary. It's a lot easier to just blacklist some crazy woman who says that trees talk. true thought leaders are often. It is not a comfortable place to be, and you don't need to be a thought leader to be a thoughtful leader.

Ah. Mm-hmm. And in fact, either way, thought is at the beginning of it. People are saying, oh, I'm putting out thought leadership on LinkedIn every day. No, you're not. Like you're not. deep thinking is behind thought leadership. So I think for me, the big thing is if you want to be a thought leader, and if you have ideas that are truly going to turn your industry on its head, cool.

Go for it. Make sure you have the support of family members of friends because you're going to it because you are going to rock a lot of boats and people are going to get angry and they're going to take it out on you because humans always shoot the messenger. If you want to be a sought after expert, an authoritative expert, somebody who is the go-to that folks know this is somebody who really thinks through things, who has some insights and perspective and wisdom to share, can do that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you can just be a thoughtful leader. I like

Erin Austin: that. I like that one. Where do you think the thought, where does the thought leadership. Term come from? Do you

Erica Holthausen: recall or? Oh gosh. It was a business magazine. One of the editors at a business magazine that was, I think, affiliated with one of the big consulting groups.

I wish I could remember all the details. He coined the term and, well, he didn't coin the term. The term was coined a bajillion years ago when somebody was writing about a dead white guy and. The person was already dead and was considered a thought leader. Got it. In some of the Connecticut politics, basically, so originally it was basically referred to people who were already dead and gone.

It was a legacy thing Was the eighties or the nineties? I'd have to look again, but one of the publications with one of the big consulting firms was profiling what they referred to as thought leaders. So it was people in their industry who were making big shifts and big changes and were doing things differently.

So they, then coined that term. And then we mucked it up. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say

Erin Austin: it went from people whose, contributions have stood the test of time to those people who are current, mavericks, so to speak, to like everyone with an opinion

Erica Holthausen: apparently. Yeah. Yeah. and it's, take all of this with a bit of a grain of salt because this is my curmudgeonly approach to the term thought leader.

If you love the word. I'm not gonna shame you for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you may not want to actually do that, and that word may not be as important. it is also something that is, granted to you. It is not. I am a thought leader. Mm-hmm. Saying I am a thought leader is like saying, I am amazing.

It's just, braggardly. Mm-hmm. And it is usually something that is bestowed upon you. You have earned that title from somebody else. So when somebody else refers to you as a thought leader, like puff up a little. Mm-hmm. Take some pride in that because that's cool. Right.

Erin Austin: Well, the interesting thing about that is, if you are a consultant with corporate clients, like they want some measure of safety and certainty.

They don't want someone who's way out of the pack and who knows what. Gonna happen. Like they've kind of know like, okay, these are the results I'm gonna get. I know she gets some time and time again and everyone's happy. Like that's kind of what they're buying.

Erica Holthausen: They're not buying. Yeah. They don't, they don't want to be leadership.

Yeah. They don't want to be your laboratory like Right. Definitely not. They have a problem. They want a solution and yeah. so that's the other piece is I think that phrase thought leader has taken on such an oversized. Meaning an idea that it's lost its original meaning and it's probably not what your clients want.

Right. It's

Erin Austin: more become a sales pitch. Yeah. For people who wanna you. Thought leadership training kind of thing,

Erica Holthausen: or, yeah. because now like everybody and their brother is like, you can hire me to do thought leadership. Like, no, no, you can't. Then it's no. That way. Stop it. Now, speaking of

Erin Austin: working with people to show their expertise, to become the go-to person, like who is the ideal client for you?

How do we know we're ready for high visibility

Erica Holthausen: publications? Yeah, great question. So, You have to have experience-based expertise. that's the primary key. So I do a lot of work with consultants who are quite established in their businesses. I work with executives and some business coaches. But the key is if you're new to the field and you're still learning, right, please do right.

Maybe not for high visibility publications quite yet, because you might be still working out how this all works. And please, for the love of God, do not write a book when you have just started your business because a book is, in terms of, assets and how they become more valuable over time.

Writing on your blog is a great place to explore writing on LinkedIn. Great place to explore your ideas, figure out your own perspective, figure out your point of view, figure out your writing style and your voice, your blog. Same thing. Then there's high visibility publications where it's like, okay. I have a very established perspective and I have the receipts to back up my perspective, so I have the experience with clients to back up what I'm saying here.

And then I would argue, after you have the articles, that's when you can also do a book. Mm-hmm. Because the book is going to be like that thing is gonna stick around for a long time if it is good. If it is relevant, if it is Evergreen articles, if you write an article and a couple years later you're like, yeah, I've really changed how I think about this, nobody's gonna see the damn thing.

Mm-hmm. Unless you are sharing. But a book is a huge amount of investment of energy, time, effort, money. So really the best folks are folks who have. They've gone through that first exploring phase. They know who it is that they're serving. They have a very strong point of view and perspective. and one of the ways to know if you have a strong point of view or perspective is if you read things in your industry and you're like, yeah, but mm-hmm.

Or Yes. And because they're missing something or no, because. That means that is indication that you've got a strong perspective When you start disagreeing or wanting to add more context and nuance to what is already out there, that's when you're ready for high visibility publications, because that's when you are adding to the conversation instead of adding to the noise.

Erin Austin: Hmm. That is great. Yes. I do have noticed as well on my side of, things that when people are struggling, instead of getting better at whatever, they continue to work on it, that they're looking for other ways to, get exposure. Like for, in your instance, like, I'm a newbie, so I wanna get my name out there, so I wanna.

Right. For high publications. On my end, someone will have some sort of product or a framework that they're trying to sell. They're not fully booked, but they think they've got a great framework, and so maybe other consultants would wanna license it too, like, No wait until you, if you're not fully booked yourself and you have, don't have proof of concept, then you're too early and you need some more work there to develop a little bit more before you're ready for the next

Erica Holthausen: stage.

So, yeah. Yeah, I love that parallel because it's true. You need to have proof of concept and otherwise you're going to waste your own time, money, and effort, and you don't ever wanna put something out that is, That permanent and that big a deal that five years down the line you're going, oh God, can we just make it go away?

Erin Austin: Yeah. Don't that way back machine

Erica Holthausen: to say what I was saying. Right. Like some of that is natural. Like I look at stuff that I wrote a while ago and I'm like, Ooh girl. No. but like if it's on my own blog, it means I can just refresh it. There you go. There you go. But other things like, there's such a, push for doing everything faster and bigger and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And you can write a book in 30 days. Sure. You can. It's gonna be trash. Mm-hmm. But you can, There's so much pressure to do things quickly. You cannot think deeply if you are trying to do things quickly, and if you do things quickly, They are not going to be appreciating assets.

Mm-hmm. They're going to be depreciating assets. Mm-hmm. If you're going to write for a high visibility publication or put together a book, make it an appreciating asset that you can use over and over and over and over again.

Erin Austin: Great advice. Now, back to the body of work that, I know you like to use the tree analogy and the forest analogy, but, as people are developing that body of work, how should they think about what to write about?

How do they make sure it's kind of unified and it all kind of talks to each

Erica Holthausen: other? Yeah, so the biggest unifying force is knowing what is the reputation you are trying to build? What do you want to be known for? Every single thing we do, every opportunity we accept, every article we write either enhances or diminishes that opportunity.

or that reputation. Use the reputation you are trying to build. I want to be known for X. Mm-hmm. Use that as the filter. Because we will all be approached. It happens all the time where we get approached by somebody. It's like, Ooh, that's such a great opportunity. it's fun, it's sexy.

I get in front of all of these folks, but it's not quite aligned. Mm-hmm. When we say yes to something that's not quite aligned, it muddies the waters. It makes it not a hundred percent clear. it is that we do and who it is that we serve. So instead of saying yes to those, I always recommend take that and you probably know someone for whom it is perfectly aligned.

Mm-hmm. So turn that, miss opportunity, that's a miss into a gift and give it to somebody else. But in terms of writing and creating your body of work, Knowing the reputation that you are trying to build, that is the most critical piece. And then, okay, this is the reputation I am trying to build.

Collecting questions from your client's, problems that you've solved, all of that can help. And you evaluate each one against, will this enhance or this reputation? If it enhances, great, go for it. Keep writing about that kind of stuff. Figure out where the gaps are in your own work, but also figure out where the gaps are in the conversation that others in your world are having.

Mm-hmm. So if you're doing your professional development and you're reading things in your industry and you're seeing where people are either oversimplifying something, Or overcomplicating it. That is a great gap for you to fill to be able to say like, let's actually look at the nuance.

Mm-hmm. Here's why this is over complicated and here's what you can do and why this actually works. Mm-hmm. Or here's why this is oversimplified and what you can do. And why it works.

Erin Austin: that is great advice. I'll say like, part of this podcast is just for me to get free advice from consultant.

I admire. Granted, you're very generous with your, information anyway, but, I have and continue to work with, what should be the content of my body of work because I can kind of go in a lot of different places and like, Kind of do sometimes. And so, within the IP bucket, like there's a lot of Yeah.

Little buckets in there. Yeah. And I do find myself constantly pulled into that general like, well, what about trademarks and what about patents? I'm like, I don't know what, I don't care. Like that's, It's not, copyright, copyright, copyright. And so it's been a real struggle for me to stay in my lane.

'cause it's really, 'cause people immediately wanna kind of pull you

Erica Holthausen: away. And it's hard because people pull you, but also you want to be helpful. Yes, And if I know more than you do about a thing, even if it's not my thing, right. I want to be helpful. Right. But as soon as we do that, Then, it's sort of that like, be careful what you're good at.

Mm-hmm. Because suddenly you'll end up doing all of that thing just because you're good at it and you're like, I hate this. Right. Thanks. I'm good at it. I hate doing it. and then you get more of those requests. So yes. Yeah, it's not easy to stay in your lane, but the more you can. Have a filter.

And I think sometimes this is also where that deep and deep work comes in. Sometimes you have to take a break. we swim in this Kool-Aid that has so many opinions about what we should do, how we should do it, who we are, who we should be, like, all of those things. Sometimes I think just silencing all of that noise so that you can connect

With your own self, with your inner wisdom and see, okay, yes, I can do this. Is it, is this the direction that I want to go? Mm-hmm. Or is this the thing that I really want to do? And the stronger that filter can be, the easier it is to push off some other folks, because there will always be some folks that you're like, but I really wanna do this.

And yeah. so you'll misstep every once in a while, but it makes it easier.

Erin Austin: How do you find time for deep thinking? I have trouble with that one too. I'm very reactive to my inbox, put it that way.

Erica Holthausen: Yeah. So when I am being good, which is not always, I don't open email or LinkedIn until 10 o'clock in the morning.

I'm an early bird, so I am, that is when my, brain works best the later in the day, the dumber I am. so like 6:00 AM is when I'm like, yes. so oftentimes, like I have had a, free writing practice for over 10 years now. Every morning I take 10 minutes and I do a free write, and it's the way I start my day.

I try not to turn on email or LinkedIn until at least 10 o'clock, so I try to carve out an hour and a half for writing, deep thinking work time. This sometimes works and sometimes doesn't because the pull of the computer and the pull of all these, no, like I also turned off all notifications and my smartphone is the dumbest smartphone you will ever meet.

It has no apps. because I Sounds perfect, had to do that for me. Otherwise I'm like, Ooh, squirrel new thing. Ooh, ooh, ooh. some of it Just that. And then I recently started carving out, I take a week long mini sabbatical every quarter. Wow. And that doesn't mean I'm not working, but it means I don't have any meetings.

Mm-hmm. And it's a combination of, work and not work. I don't read any business stuff. Sometimes we, just get too inundated. Mm-hmm. I read essays and fiction and things that just delight me, and I played a little bit in my garden. I wrote some copy for my website because that's being redone so that of the mind.

Helped tremendously when I came back because I felt more focused, more energized, more clear about what it is that I am trying to accomplish and what my goals are. similarly to that, I list, I have right here actually. Mm-hmm. I have three priorities for a quarter, no more than three. Mm, mm-hmm. Any more than three, and like, I'm sunk.

Erin Austin: I'm afraid I'm not gonna show you. I've got, I'm gonna show you what mine are, right? This is a

Erica Holthausen: lie. Yeah, yeah. Like, then there's my to-do list, and that's a whole different, like ball of crazy. But, I try to kind of condense that down because it's like, okay, if you're pulled in too many different directions, we've all had that experience where it's like, oh my God, I, worked so hard today and what did I accomplish?

Right. I have no idea.

Erin Austin: Yeah. I have never done, I mean, At some point in my career, I'll figure this out of how to like really make dedicated time. Like your, when we go on sabbatical per quarter, that really does help you just come back fresh. 'cause I don't know how to get out of the thick of it. That's something I need to, I definitely need work

Erica Holthausen: on. Yeah. it's hard and it took a long time of hearing from a mutual friend of ours, Chloe Ngu. Mm-hmm. saying that she takes many sabbaticals for me to be like, I'm gonna do that. Like I'm gonna try that and then I actually set it up for this, the rest of this year and all of next year.

Mm-hmm. So it's already carved out in my calendar. 'cause if it's, not on my calendar, then I'm definitely sunk. that is so good. '

Erin Austin: cause no one can put meeting there. No. Right. Wow. That's, a little bit brave though, don't you think? Did you have, did it scare you to do

Erica Holthausen: that? It did, it absolutely terrified me to do it.

'cause it's like, that's a big deal. It is a big deal. Mm-hmm. And I will say that I chose things like my first sabbatical was over July 4th. Mm-hmm. So, That's a lower key time anyway. Mm-hmm. The next one is over Thanksgiving. Again, it tends to be a bit of a lower key time.

Mm-hmm. so I did kind of. Choose dates that felt like, okay, I could get away with this. Mm-hmm. which is a terrible way to, think about it because it's also these mini sabbaticals are, this is not vacation. Right. So that's the other sort of reminder to myself, because I'm terrible at actually taking time off to actually go on vacation.

Mm-hmm. but it's a great reminder to myself that it's like, yeah, when I do this, the dividends are so, Huge. Mm-hmm. And I feel clearer and it's so much easier to filter out the stuff that we are bombarded with that just isn't for me because. There's always more than one way to do a thing. Yes. All right.

Erin Austin: Well that is fantastic advice, and speaking of, feeling like some guilt or being brave in order to take time for ourselves and do some deep thinking, as founders of our own businesses, I mean, the whole reason we're doing this is so that we can have greater impact and bring our own genius to, the world.

And so we really do need to make time for those things to make sure that we are at our best. So, this is a very meta podcast and it's hourly to exit. 'cause I have to talk about, growing our expertise based businesses from that unsustainable, hourly type of work to one that maybe we could possibly sell someday.

So I have to ask you, have you thought about growing your business to sell it sometime in

Erica Holthausen: the future? Because of you, I have, and I've gone back and forth on whether that is my desire. Or not exactly what that, and exactly what that looks like and what are the different ways that could show up.

Mm-hmm. one of the things that I did just a couple of years ago is I started small group cohort program. So I have a lot of. Frameworks, like I have IP asset sort of inventory thing. Like I have a lot of things and I'm like, this is cool. I have a lot of things here. So I think it would be possible, which is something that's a huge change for me.

'cause when I started it was like, well that wouldn't possibly be possible. And now I'm like, actually might be able to license some of this stuff, right? Mm-hmm. So it's now at least has a home in my head and. We'll see, it's something that is, I am surprised to say it is something that I am, is under consideration.

Mm-hmm. It's not my current goal and I, don't think I am ready for it. As you were talking earlier with like, you really have to have like the proof in the pudding. Yeah. The proof is not in the pudding yet. It's still, new enough that I'm, developing that out, but, It's now something that's like, oh, this might be the thing.

Erin Austin: Yeah. Well, I mean, of course the things that help you scale and bring leverage to your business today are the things that possibly could become saleable tomorrow. So it's not about five years from now or 10 years from now. It's about tomorrow really. And having a. Better, business that, helps you decouple your income from your time, which, I love to talk about.

Yeah. So as we wrap up, we have a couple of final questions. One is, as you know, we believe in creating an economy that works for everyone, and so I'm wondering if there is an organization that you'd like to share that is helping create more opportunities for people.

Erica Holthausen: Yeah. this is such a hard question because there are so many organizations locally where I am that I absolutely love, but I'm going to choose Start Fresh.

Start Fresh. Connecticut is an organization in New London, Connecticut. It helps resettle refugees. So, I think it was not even a year ago, several refugees from Afghanistan were brought to Connecticut. This organization helped settle that family and they help get the kiddos into school, get workforce training for mom and dad, get English language skills training for anybody who needs that they find housing.

So it's just, it's this wonderful organization that. Looks at the family holistically. It's not just like, Hey, you're here. Cool, and like dump and run. Right? it's an investment of, at least a year, but often longer than that to help the family really get settled and get what they need. I.

Erin Austin: Wonderful. We will have links to their organization in the show notes. And so now I, know there's something exciting happening in your business. Is there something that you can share with our audience?

Erica Holthausen: Yeah. one of the things that I have done, it started as an experiment a couple of years ago, and.

I decided I would do it as long as I found it fun and other people found it valuable. And it's a monthly mini training and q and a that I call pitch to published. So every month I have a different, theme. So we'll talk about headlines one month or how to structure an article or. How do you write a pitch?

Erica Holthausen: all of those different things. So there's a theme for the mini training, and then I just open the floor for folks to ask whatever questions they have, and I do my level best to answer them. So it's a great place for folks who. Are curious about might be curious about me. I'm a strong cup of tea and I'm not everybody's cup of tea.

So it lets them know like, awesome, yes, you're my person, or No, you make me bananas. so yeah, that's, probably the thing. I've now been doing it for almost three years. Mm-hmm. And I just, every month I am surprised and delighted that people show up and, We have a great conversation.

Erin Austin: we do, we do.

I've been to few and they are fantastic and Erica is a great leader of trainings and masterminds and things like that, so it is a lot of fun. So we'll also have links to that in the show notes. Now, speaking of you're current, where you are currently talking about as we record this, as the headlines, and so of course now you're in my head when I'm creating headlines.

So, my newsletter tomorrow will have headline. IP in Haiku. And so I think the headline has to have a promise and I need to, satisfy like the promise of the headline, right? And so, I do have a haiku about IP

Erica Holthausen: in my newsletter. Excellent.

Aaron Austin, making IP fun.

Erin Austin: all right, so finally, where can people

Erica Holthausen: find you? so my website is catchline communications.com and I am on delighted to say I am on one and only one social media platform. So you can also find me on LinkedIn I'm very active there, so if you do hop by, like say hello.

Erin Austin: Yeah. You and me both on that LinkedIn,

Erica Holthausen: there's that, you know?

That's it. Yeah, yeah, It allows me to maintain my sanity by just being on that one platform. Well,

Erin Austin: this has been so much fun. Thank you again for coming on, hanging out and sharing your wisdom with me and with the audience. Oh,

Erica Holthausen: such a pleasure. All right. We

Erin Austin: will talk again soon. Thanks guys.