Erin [00:00:07]:

Hello, ladies. Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I'm your host, Erin Austin. My goal with every episode is to share information and resources to help you achieve the next level of growth in your expertise based business. We all know generating income from our expertise is pretty easy. The challenge is in scaling and building a business that can run without you. Join me here every week to make sure you are building an asset that can be used to fund your goals and your legacy. Before we get started, though, one little disclaimer. Because I'm a lawyer, the information I share on the podcast is general in nature and is provided for information purposes only. It is not to be relied upon nor construed as providing legal advice or legal opinions about any specific issue or set of facts. Now, here we go. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I am so pleased to have Radiance Harris with me today. Hi, Radiance.

Radiance Harris [00:01:16]:

Hi, Erin. Thank you for having me.

Erin [00:01:18]:

That is such a beautiful name. Tell me the origin of your name.

Radiance Harris [00:01:22]:

Thank you. I mean, long story short, my parents both have R names, rhonda and Rodney, and they wanted their firstborn child to have an R name that was similar feel to faith, hope, or patience. And it looked in the dictionary, saw the word Radiance, and voila, here I am.

Erin [00:01:39]:

Well, that's a great result. We have all e games in my family, but they're not nearly as interesting as Radiance. Yes, we get Ernest Elizabeth, another Ernest Edward.

Radiance Harris [00:01:53]:

And so we have Rhonda, Rodney, Radiance and Revey. Oh, nice.

Erin [00:02:00]:

Everyone can share monogram purchase, right? So I am so excited about this episode. I'm going to let you introduce yourself, and then we're going to dig in.

Radiance Harris [00:02:14]:

Okay, well, thank you again for having me. I am Radiance Harris. I'm the founder and managing attorney of Radiance IP Law, and I help emerging businesses protect monetize and grow profitable brands with.

Erin [00:02:30]:

Discovered know. First of all, we're kind of neighbors. We live right across the Potomac River from each other. We haven't met yet in person, but we're going to have to fix that very soon. But I discovered Radiance because I read about her in some really, it was it was the local magazine, I believe, where you were a rising star or a shooting star or superstar or some kind of star. That's all I know, is that you were some kind of star. I knew I had to reach out to you immediately. I am ravidly anti dabbler. I'm pro vaxxer anti dabbler. And so I love to talk to experts in other areas of law who really have that deep expertise so they can talk to the audience. So this is one of those topics that I would really like to keep broader. Sometimes I'll have someone in, we'll just kind of go into one little niche. But this one, I think people are so interested in the topic of trademarks, and just to get a broad 3000 foot view of it, as well as also dig into its application to the expertise based business. So start from the top. Can you share just generally what is intellectual property, what the different types are, and then specifically what trademarks are?

Radiance Harris [00:03:59]:

Sure. Intellectual property or IP is a broad umbrella term that encompasses four types or four areas. So you've got trademarks, copyright, trade secrets, and patents. And so trademarks protect your brand. So your business name, brand name, product and service names, taglines logos, basically anything that serves as a source Identifier for your business. Meaning a source Identifier is that when someone sees it in the marketplace, do they automatically associate that name, that logo, with your particular offerings? The second category is copyright, which protects copyright, protects content. So any of the content you create, written materials, photographs, videos, artwork, music, anything that I guess is the original expression of ideas in tangible form would be considered or subject to copyright protection. Then you've got trade secrets, which is anything that is proprietary or meant to be kept a secret. It could be a business formula, recipes, business and financial information. Anything that's meant to be proprietary or kept a secret would be subject to trade secrets. And then you've got patents, which protect inventions. So if you're creating any inventive inventions, then you would be seeking patent protection for that.

Erin [00:05:28]:

One question, right, when you mentioned a tangible form and people ask questions about software, is that considered tangible form?

Radiance Harris [00:05:37]:

Yeah, depending on the software, it could be subject to patent protection. Depending on the software, it could be subject to copyright. So you can copyright the software coding, you can copyright sort of like the look and feel the look, not the feel the look of the software you can protect. From the trademark perspective, the name of the software would be subject to trademark protection. So there's multiple intellectual properties within software, I would say.

Erin [00:06:08]:

Yeah, absolutely. So I hear a lot that people want to trademark, like, everything. And obviously you've mentioned a lot of categories that are eligible for trademark protection, but at what point in the business do they really need to start seriously thinking about trademark? From the moment they think of a business name, or service name or product name, or is there some kind of inflection point where they really need to.

Radiance Harris [00:06:33]:

Get serious about I think you should protect your trademarks prior to use or adoption. And that's important, particularly if you're really serious about your business. And this is more than just a hobby. It's definitely important to pursue trademark protection before you actually start using or adopting it, or at least at the very beginning. The reason why it's so important to do that is because, one, you want to make sure that you're not committing a trademark infringement. So a lot of people just kind of conjure up this name in their head and they're like, I love that, and they just start plastering it over everywhere without understanding that there are legal implications to doing that, serious legal implications. And so that's one of the reasons. And then secondly, it gives you that peace of mind as you're growing your business that you now will have exclusive legal ownership in the name. Because that's the thing, when you don't have that trademark protection in your business name, you don't have any rights. You're not able to prevent competitors from using a similar name as yours or selling competing products or services. So there's a lot of legal importance to securing a trademark prior to use and adoption. So I would say doing it sooner rather than later is the way to go.

Erin [00:07:47]:

And how much time do they have before they start using it? Isn't there a time period that they have to start using it if they do it?

Radiance Harris [00:07:55]:

So there are two ways you can file trademark applications. You can file based on current use, so meaning you've already been using it and you can show evidence that you've been using it as such. And then you can also file based on an intent to use. So with intent to use applications, you can file those applications before you started using it. So at this point it could just be an idea like, I know I'm going to use this name, I know that the users are the products and services that I'm offering, I want to make sure that I have this name unlocked. So then you file the intent to use and with those applications you have essentially up to like three and a half years in some cases to start using the trademark before it will eventually go abandoned. But assuming you're planning on launching something within the next 24 to 36 months, you could definitely start with an intent to use trademark application are they different.

Erin [00:08:44]:

Processes and different costs?

Radiance Harris [00:08:47]:

Similar process. The only difference is that you file your evidence of trademark use when you file your application with the use based applications, whereas with the intent to use, there's an additional step right before you're registered where the USPTO wants to see evidence of trademark use. So that's when you have to submit a statement of use, and that's where you would give them, okay, here's the date we first started using the mark, and here's the evidence that we're using the trademark as we've applied for it. And with that additional step, there are additional filing fees, but other than that, it's the same process.

Erin [00:09:23]:

Okay, so the intent to use basically puts your flag, stake in the ground, flag in the road.

Radiance Harris [00:09:29]:

Yeah, stake your claim like, I'm using this name for this, and so it establishes priority as of the filing date. So while you're getting your business affairs in order, you know, okay, I've got this name on lock. Now if you decide to get your business fairs in order before doing it, and then later find out that someone else has either filed before you, has filed before you, then you're kind of out of luck. So there is a lot of benefit to doing an intent to use, especially if you know that you're going to launch within a certain amount of time and you're confident that that's going to be the name or the tagline that you want to use, and then the products and services as well.

Erin [00:10:07]:

Got it. So along with doctors having problems with dr, google lawyers have problems with Google.

Radiance Harris [00:10:14]:

University, as you call it.

Erin [00:10:16]:

Yeah, I was just talking to someone the other day who had tried to get trademark protection for her business name, and it was rejected. And I asked her, did you use a lawyer? And she said, no, but she watched some videos and she on YouTube, read everything on the trademark office site. So tell us the benefits of using a lawyer.

Radiance Harris [00:10:37]:

I mean, a lawyer will increase your chance of success substantially. I think it's like 60 or 70% increase in success with an attorney. One thing's for sure, so increasingly, I say over the last two years, USPTO has become increasingly aggressive in initiating initial refusals. So about 70% of trademark applications that are filed will receive an initial refusal via an office action. So as an attorney, when you're hiring an attorney, a good trademark attorney, not just somebody who's pretending they do trademarks or happen to do it on the side, but someone who specializes in trademark law will be able to do, like a preliminary or full trademark search to make sure that there are no challenges or potential refusals that will come. Or if there are some, they can help develop a strategy about how to either avoid them or get around them should they arise. So that's one, they'll help minimize the risk of objection or refusals. Two, they'll help you correctly identify what categories to file the trademark application in. I know too many people who do the legal zoom and do the DIY, and they incorrectly, for whatever reason, choose the wrong class or the wrong descriptions of products and services that doesn't actually cover what they are doing. And so a trademark that doesn't reflect what you're actually offering in the marketplace is no good for you. And so a trademark attorney can help with that, can help with the strategy and just handle all of the nuances and minutiae of the lengthy twelve to 14 month process. It's a long process, and so a trademark attorney can handle that for you while you're able to focus on making money, building your business, things of that nature, versus trying to learn trademark law.

Erin [00:12:31]:

Exactly. So if you have been rejected, can you fix that?

Radiance Harris [00:12:39]:

There are some that we can fix. There are some that we can argue around and fix. It is better though, to, again, if we were hired at the beginning, we were anticipating that this is going to happen, and so we had a strategy. Sometimes it's hard to fix once it's happened because now we're cleaning up a big mess. So there are sometimes we're able to fix it, and other times where we're not, where we have to tell them, no, we got to refile this. If you had hired an attorney, you would have seen that this would have been rejected kind of thing. So I would say it depends on the situation, but it's always best to do it right from the beginning because sometimes it can't be fixed.

Erin [00:13:18]:

Absolutely. Yeah. You mentioned classes and making sure you're categorizing in the right class. Tell us about what that is and.

Radiance Harris [00:13:27]:

Why that's so there, I guess, for the person who wants to learn more about how to find trademark classes, there's a trademark ID manual on the USPTO website where it's like approved descriptions of goods and services. So, like, if you have a mobile app or if you have a book series or anything, or you're doing courses, you go into the manual, and basically it helps you identify approved descriptions that will be approved. And so that's the best way to go about it. But you want to make sure that your trademark application reflects what you were doing, because there's been some that say they go and they file, for example, clothing and apparel that they file for clothing and apparel. And I'm like, Why did you file for that? Are you trying to sell a clothing line? They're like, oh, no, we're just selling promotional T shirts. Like, my business is Radiance IP law, and I just give away promotional shirts with Radiance IP law on the front. Well, you wouldn't secure a trademark for that because it's not a clothing brand. You're just using it for promotional purposes. So there are certain things that are not actually, I guess, noticeable or to the layperson, like what constitutes trademark use or what you would file for. But the trademark ID manual at least helps with coming up with approved descriptions, but you still have to make sure that the application reflects what you're doing.

Erin [00:14:51]:

Yeah, I would love to hear the craziest story you have about trademarks, but first when they're thinking about their names and you're helping them work through, okay, this is too generic. I know there's different levels of protection. Like, even if you get a registration, that there's different levels of protection. Am I right there? Can you talk us through that?

Radiance Harris [00:15:13]:

Yeah, sure. So not all trademarks are created equal. There are some trademarks that are stronger than others. So know the trademark when you think about in the marketplace, like Exxon, Google, Kleenex, Adidas, Ikea, where they are consisting of invented words that don't exist in the English dictionary, those are the best and the strongest and inherently distinctive trademarks. So if you come up with a name that's, like, invented that's not in the dictionary, those are the best trademarks because, one, it's very distinctive, so you won't have any issues with likelihood of confusion. Refusal, which is likelihood of confusion is the standard for trademark infringement. Your chances of that happening are lower because you invented the word. So then the next level underneath that are when you use words in the English dictionary but apply it to something completely unrelated. So think of like, Apple for computers, camel for cigarettes. Again, completely unrelated. Those are also good trademarks. They're distinctive because they're unrelated. Now, as you go down now, you're getting closer to, like, suggestive are also good trademarks, but you're on the fence of it almost being descriptive. So when your name is really descriptive, so meaning the name describes the nature of the product nature, feature or characteristic of the products and services that you are offering, then it is descriptive. And descriptive names are difficult to trademark unless you can show basically that you've acquired distinctiveness. So what does that mean? Acquired distinctiveness means that you've used that descriptive name exclusively and continuously in commerce for at least five years. So much so that it's become distinctive or unique for your products and services. Only then can you then secure trademark protection for that. But as you see, it's a process.

Erin [00:17:08]:

Have you ever seen that happen in real life?

Radiance Harris [00:17:11]:

Oh, yeah, I've got clients all the time. We were like, oh, I've been offering this name for five years, and I'm like, oh, perfect. We can do acquired distinctiveness. And so once you can do the acquired distinctiveness, you can't receive a descriptiveness rejection. Now, if it's generic meaning like, it's a completely generic term for that, then no, generic names cannot be trademarked at all. But if it's descriptive and you've been using it exclusively and continuously for at least five years, then yeah, it's been used very aggressively in the marketplace. And you can definitely claim acquired distinctiveness to get trademark rights. But again, it's a process.

Erin [00:17:53]:

Whereas I'm thinking of the person who was just told me she was rejected, and I think she might fall into that.

Radiance Harris [00:17:58]:

Yeah, with the descriptive, and she wouldn't have known, and she may have been in business for ten years and not know that, oh, I could have claimed acquired distinctiveness. That's something that a trademark attorney would be able to advise on or help with.

Erin [00:18:11]:

Right. One of the things I see a lot is someone using a foreign, like a translation, a foreign translation as trying to get a trademark on that. How do they like that?

Radiance Harris [00:18:22]:

Well, there's a doctrine of foreign equivalence. I know this is sounding very legalese, but that's what it's called where when you're applying for a trademark, for a word that's being translated, an English word, they're going to translate it to the English word. So, like, I can't even think of a translation. But in any event, if it's a foreign word, when they're doing the trademark search, they're going to see if there's an equivalent to it in the English language. And so when they're doing the trademark search for, like, welcome, so if you're using a foreign word for the word welcome, the trademark search is going to be for the word welcome. Like a trademark attorney would research the foreign equivalent to make sure that there's no trademark infringement there. And so that's something to think that you can't get around a refusal by changing it to a foreign word if that word is already protected in English for the products and services that are of interest. Got it? Okay.

Erin [00:19:17]:

All right, so let's flip to the you have your trademark registration and somebody else. Well, there's two things. One is if you're on the receiving end of a cease and desist, or if you have a mark and you find somebody else is infringing it.

Radiance Harris [00:19:34]:

Okay? So if you're on the receiving end of the cease and desist, assuming you haven't secured any US federal trademark rights okay, so if you're on the receiving end and it's valid claim, meaning you're a junior user, when you're receiving a nasty gram, as I like to call it, they're usually going to ask you to cease any all use immediately. And they're going to ask you to then, in which case you're going to have to stop any all use. That means stopping in any regards, taking it down. And then you're going to have to come up with something else. You're going to have to come up with a totally new name, hopefully. It could always escalate. If you decide to fight and fight it all, it could escalate to litigation, but that just would not be a smart thing to do in this case. A lot of actual trademark infringement cases end up being settled, but they go years and years. So imagine how much legal feature it's a mess, I like to say.

Erin [00:20:31]:

Only the lawyers win.

Radiance Harris [00:20:32]:

It is a hot mess. So it's so much easier to just get the trademark early and do it right. You're spending like three grand or something to get the trademark done versus all this money on legal fees and then to do the rebrand is so much more expensive to you. So it's important to do it right now. On the other hand, if you have US federal trademark registration and you find out that someone started using the mark after you, and then you can enforce your rights against them so you can send them a nasty gram, you can prevent them from use. But it's important to know that once you're a trademark owner, the duty is on you as a trademark owner to enforce your rights. So if you don't enforce your rights, there are other people out there who could start using it and will continue to use it unless you enforce your rights. So it's not automatic. Like, yes, getting a US federal trademark registration will block someone, could block someone from securing a registration with a USPTO in some cases because sometimes there are strategies where people do these workarounds and allows them to slide. So but granted, it would prevent someone from getting a registration, but you have to stop them from actually using it in the marketplace. So you would send them a cease and desist letter, and then you'd have the option to actually sue them too. And you could get like, trouble damages. You can get attorneys fees. There's all of these different remedies that you could have as a holder of a trademark registration.

Erin [00:22:03]:

And what happens if, I don't know, this is a case or not, but if there's two different classes, but they're very close, like, let's say, like business something and software something, like they're kind of similar and somehow you're trying to get but two different companies does the trademark office catch that, or does that lead into the other?

Radiance Harris [00:22:28]:

It depends, generally speaking. So like I mentioned before, the standard for trademark infringement is likelihood of confusion. So it's looking at whether if someone saw two competing marks in the marketplace that were either identical or similar, would they think it's the same business? Are they affiliated by each other? Are they endorsed? Is there some kind of relationship with them? So a good example of what's not trademark infringement is like, you have, for example, Pandora for jewelry. You've got Pandora for music services. You've got Dove for chocolate, you've got Dove for soap. Even though those are identical trademarks, they're covering completely unrelated products and services. So in those regards, there's kind of a pass. You can get over it. There is an exception, however, for famous marks. Famous marks have, like I say, trademark superpowers, like famous marks like McDonald's or like Alexis or Coca cola, like you can't pop up with coca cola candy. Or there are issues with that. There's trademark dilution issues and all of that. So typically it's important to stay away completely from famous brands. With that being said, when you're looking at whether something's infringing the marks don't have to be identical for it to be infringement, they can be similar, and neither do the products and services. If they're related or similar, it could constitute trademark infringement. So that's something to keep in mind when you're adopting a name and looking at what's already out there asking yourself, am I committing trademark infringement here?

Erin [00:24:08]:

So then how soon in the process? Because most people are out there thinking about things. They don't have lawyers on speed dial, and they're listening to this right now. Do they call you immediately when they're in the ideation phase or when do they call you?

Radiance Harris [00:24:28]:

I think it's best to call me when you are in the idea phase, but you know, you want to execute that idea. Those are the best ones I love to work with because of the fact that they are starting early, so they're getting their ducks in a row. If you will. So here's what I want to do. And then we're able to come up with a legal action plan to here are the things you need to think about. You need to do it at this step in the process versus them getting it up and running. It's already out there and launched and they skipped all of these other important steps. And then you realize, oh, I can't use this name now. And it's like, well, if we would have did this earlier, we would have discovered it. And then I always tell people, do not share your ideas and concepts with anyone. Like just anyone, because ideas and concepts are not protectable. There's no protection whatsoever. So when you're like, he stole my idea or she stole my idea. Well, I mean, again, it's not protectable. Intellectual property protection sticks once that idea develops into something. So that idea develops into a business name, or that idea develops into a new invention or it develops into a written book, that's when it becomes eligible for intellectual property. So once it's an idea, I would say keep your ideas to yourself. Only share with people that you trust because otherwise they're up for grabs until intellectual property protection attaches to it.

Erin [00:25:58]:

Right? So while you're bringing me to the expertise based business that's our audience is founders of, service based businesses that are based on their expertise, how do trademarks apply to that type of business?

Radiance Harris [00:26:11]:

Right. With my business, we work with just about all service providers. Service providers have a ton of intellectual property. If you think about it, you most likely have trademarks because you have a business name. There might be products and services that you offer that are your bread and butter. So you want to trademark those names. You have logos, then you've got copyright because it's service based. You're something that you're drafting up, sharing. Maybe you're doing videos, maybe you have training programs, books. Those are all subject to copyright. And I'm sure you have trade secrets as well. Like what is helping you, I guess your secret sauce that helps you stand out from your competitors. So in all of those cases, you have intellectual property. So it's important to identify that. So identify that by doing an intellectual property audit. It's essentially like a dump and just thinking about all the things that you have and what have you created and how can you really leverage it? So in order to leverage that intellectual property, you have to protect it first. So like, identifying it is the first step, then protecting it to ensure that it's actually legally yours and that the world knows it's legally yours. You might know it's yours, but does everybody else know it? And then thirdly, leveraging it. How can you monetize it? How can you really generate money from this? And so I think it's really important to do it in those three steps. But service based businesses absolutely have intellectual property in a ton of it.

Erin [00:27:39]:

Yeah, it is surprising to me as I talk to people about that, where a lot of service based businesses are selling their time and they're not really thinking about creating assets in their business, including property. So it is we keep talking about we'll continue to talk about it and make sure that we are capturing all the value that we're creating with our expertise.

Radiance Harris [00:28:02]:

Right.

Erin [00:28:04]:

So any trends that you're seeing in trademarks? I mean, you did mention that I will say sometimes I go and I'll do a search and I'll see someone who got a trademark that I'm like, how the heck did they get protection in this? So I guess it is getting harder. But what trends are we seeing in trademark now?

Radiance Harris [00:28:23]:

I mean, recent over the last year, a lot more applications for NFTs and Metaverse type trademarks. There's a big push towards virtual services and virtual products. So there's been a real increase in those areas, I would say. And just in general, overall, there's just been since the Pandemic like record breaking numbers in terms of trademark filings each year, it keeps increasing, so much so that there keeps being delays with the US. Patent and Trademark Office because it's hard for them to keep up with the demands. So definitely businesses large and small out there are filing trademarks.

Erin [00:28:59]:

So is that because there are more businesses or more people are aware of the need to trademark or both?

Radiance Harris [00:29:06]:

I think it's probably both, but I definitely think that with the Pandemic and people realizing that they can't rely on this one stream of income and so they're either coming up with side hustles or they're taking those side hustles full time. And so they're really wanting to legitimize their business because a lot of clients say that. Yeah, when I got that trademark, I really started to take my business more seriously, because now it's like, I legitly own this. That LLC that you have, that domain name that you've got, that social media handles don't mean anything in terms of establishing legal ownership over your business. And so getting that trademark is really what does it for a lot of people. And so I think that's what it was, is that people were really starting to take their businesses seriously and or starting a new business altogether.

Erin [00:29:51]:

Mentioning that it reminds me of a post that you did recently about a development that the trademark office isn't doing is going to stop doing the physical. Because I remember I'm fairly new to Instagram, but whatever reasons, Instagram served me up some trademark lawyers where they would show the whole celebration with a gift certificate. And it was very meaningful. People were emotional about that.

Radiance Harris [00:30:22]:

Oh, yes, absolutely. And I mean, you can still order them, but it's not the same as just automatically issued. I think a lot of places are just becoming more digital now. It's just kind of the wave. Of the future. Now they're like, let's save some trees.

Erin [00:30:37]:

Yeah, I'm with that. It's hard to argue with that. That is fantastic. So this is the hourly to exit podcast. We talk about that journey from that hourly unsustainable business to one that is scalable and saleable. That includes having some exclusive assets like IP in your business and having a strong market position like a brand, and then having some independence from an owner. So where do trademarks fit in to this landscape?

Radiance Harris [00:31:10]:

So where do trademarks fit in? It fits in different ways. So it's important for you to then have the option to do any of those things. Whether it's you decide to start licensing or something, or you want to sell your business or whatever it is, you have to have legal ownership of the asset that you're selling, right? So having the trademark in the name ensures that you are the exclusive rights owner in that name. So that gives you the option to be able to do various things when that time comes. When you don't secure those trademarks early on in the process, you may or may not have that option to do those things. And so that's why it's so important, because when you don't secure a US. Federal trademark, you have what's called common law trademark rights, which are only based on where you are headquartered locally. So a lot of times service based businesses are helping clients across state lines, sometimes even internationally as well. And then even with social media and websites and all of that, people can see you have a big digital footprint. And so when you only have common law trademark rights and you're headquartered in Maryland, then you're vulnerable to someone misappropriating your name, using it, starting a competing business in a neighboring state like in Virginia or DC or something, and you wouldn't have any legal recourse. And so the importance of a trademark is to ensure that you have legal ownership, that you minimize any legal conflicts or disputes that arise later in the process, and so that you're able to license or sell or anything free and clear of any kind of conflicts or legal issues attached to it. That's the best thing.

Erin [00:32:50]:

Yeah, you raised a great point, especially at this time in history, where people may have been doing local business. They went to an office every day. I don't know why, but they do. And that maybe they've transitioned to an online I know several people who have transitioned to an online presence, and they're now helping people across the country where they were not before, and that's a major shift. And so now we're talking about federal protections instead of just so. Great point. All right, so this is a very meta podcast. I'm a female founder of an expertise based business that I hope to build to sell someday. And you are the founder of an expertise based business. So are you building your business to perhaps sell it someday?

Radiance Harris [00:33:39]:

I don't know. I don't think so. To be honest. I don't think I'm building it to sell it. Not to say it's not a possibility, but for me, it's more of like building a legacy while I'm here. Once I'm gone, it doesn't have to be here anymore. To be honest, it's just about making my mark right now, as I'm living, people will remember Radiance IP Law, but it doesn't have to actually continue once I'm gone. I don't expect my son to carry on the Radiance IP Law, but who knows? That's where I feel now. I've been in business seven years. Maybe you ask me in maybe five to seven years, maybe it's a different perspective. But for me, it's just about growing and scaling, to be able to employ people, be able to live the lifestyle that I want, things like that.

Erin [00:34:30]:

Yeah, well, I agree. The legacy is what we do every day. It's not something that we do later or after every day, the decisions that we make. And just I like to mention you are a young woman and that there may be a time that you just want another challenge. And it would be nice to have an asset that you could sell, correct?

Radiance Harris [00:34:51]:

Absolutely.

Erin [00:34:55]:

So just to wrap up, where can people find you?

Radiance Harris [00:35:00]:

You can, of course, check out our website, which is WW radianciplaw.com. You can also follow me on Instagram at harris. Esq. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm Radiance Harris on LinkedIn. Those are the primary three places where you can find me.

Erin [00:35:24]:

Fantastic. Well, this has been a delight. So much great information. Thank you so much for sharing it with us today. And we're going to make sure we meet in person very soon.

Radiance Harris [00:35:34]:

Yes, thank you for having me again.

Erin [00:35:38]:

Thank you, Radiance. Thanks for listening. Do not forget to check out the show notes for links to connect with today's guests and for the resources, offers, and organizations that we discussed. You can also find the Links@hourlytoexit.com podcast. If you got value from this episode, please subscribe and I'd be so grateful for a review. I'm here to support your journey.